Quick electrical question (yeah, we know how that goes)

[diymirage]

Previous owners of my house had a hot tub, in the same spot where I have a pool

There is a electrical box with 4 wires, two hot, a neutral and a ground (see picture 1)

I am replacing my pool heater (think pop up pool on steroids, 5000 gallons) with a 240volt unit

The new heater uses 240v, but a 3 wire system, two hots and a ground

So, can I put the green from the pump on the bare wire ground log, in the box
Add the black from the pump to the black in the box, and add some red tape to the white wire from the pump and add it to the red wire in the box ?

 

[Dan the man]

I'm not a electrician, but I would wire it like it calls for as your dealing with 240 volts and water. I would rather be safe than sorry.

 

[diymirage]

I'm not a electrician, but I would wire it like it calls for as your dealing with 240 volts and water. I would rather be safe than sorry.

No kidding
I'm pretty confident when it comes to electrical, but theres a difference between confidence and being cocky (and in this case, cooked)

I just remembered I have a welder outlet in the garage, im going to see if that might work

 

[jos51700]

At the end of the day that ground wire ties into the exact place as the neutral back in the main panel. Open it up and look.
I don't understand the nature of the question. You're asking what to do with the ground wire since your new stuff has only two hots and a neutral?

With water, you DEFINITELY want the neutral AND the ground. If the neutral loses contact, you do NOT want that power grounding through the water and, possibly, you

 

[Dan the man]

No kidding
I'm pretty confident when it comes to electrical, but theres a difference between confidence and being cocky (and in this case, cooked)

I just remembered I have a welder outlet in the garage, im going to see if that might work

I've wired dryers and stoves, and some have been right from the breaker box but I've always used the number of wires and their correct colors required. I was only telling you that it's best to be safe then sorry.

 

[grjammer]

I have worked as both a residential and commercial electrician, and from your second picture, the lower wire with the black/white/green looks to be a 115 cable. Codes have changed, so check what is required for either ground fault, arc-fault, and what type of disconnect is needed and where, (usually within 6 ft of appliance). It can be like a dryer cord or a a simple small box with a pull out bus bar thing with no fuses. If you have a wiring diagram of the heater and can post it, it would help, or a manufacturer and model number even better.
That being said, 240 lines are black to neutral, (115v) and Red to neutral, (115v). Neutral is always white unless used in a switch leg and then taped black. The green wire is a bonding wire, usually attached to the metal part of each device or box. The white and green are connected in the main panel for 115v house circuits, as stated above. I can't help but think the heater you have isn't 240v, but 115v with that small black/white/green cable.

 

[diymirage]

I have worked as both a residential and commercial electrician, and from your second picture, the lower wire with the black/white/green looks to be a 115 cable. Codes have changed, so check what is required for either ground fault, arc-fault, and what type of disconnect is needed and where, (usually within 6 ft of appliance). It can be like a dryer cord or a a simple small box with a pull out bus bar thing with no fuses. If you have a wiring diagram of the heater and can post it, it would help, or a manufacturer and model number even better.
That being said, 240 lines are black to neutral, (115v) and Red to neutral, (115v). Neutral is always white unless used in a switch leg and then taped black. The green wire is a bonding wire, usually attached to the metal part of each device or box. The white and green are connected in the main panel for 115v house circuits, as stated above. I can't help but think the heater you have isn't 240v, but 115v with that small black/white/green cable.

Thanks for the reply

When I asked the manufacturer this is what they said.


"Dear Eelco,
Thanks for you reply, the 40000BTU model comes with a 10ft power cord with 3 connectors for circuit breaker(40000BTU model run with max current of 12 Amps, suggested circuit breaker size is 25-30 Amps), it will connect in 3 wires style with 2 live wire and 1 ground wire. The image of the wire connectors is attached. We will be with you agian when you are back, i am always here to help. Have a good day and take care these days.
Respectfully
Katrina.J
Varminpool Team"


Looking at the wire, i think it is labeled as "300v 14awg" (ill double check later)

When i head back inside ill take a pic of the paper work that came with it and shows the schematic

THe heater is definitely labeled as 220-240 volts though



I opened up the welder plug in the garage and did not like what I saw, so right now my plan is to tie into the box as I mentioned in post one, run a wire to a waterproof box on the outside of the deck and put a L6-30 outlet in there, then put a matching plug on the heater and call it a day

 

[diymirage]

Schematics from the manual, and type plate

​

 

[grjammer]

Sounds like you have a plan. The instructions last two steps confuse me a bit. "An AC contactor is required for the circulation pump, and an AC contactor is required for the Heat pump power supply".
A language barrier to be certain, but the term contactor could be a relay, a switch, or a plug.

 

[diymirage]

Sounds like you have a plan. The instructions last two steps confuse me a bit. "An AC contactor is required for the circulation pump, and an AC contactor is required for the Heat pump power supply".
A language barrier to be certain, but the term contactor could be a relay, a switch, or a plug.

Yeah, that one had me scratching my head

I decided they gave me the option to power a filter pump (needed to circulate the water) from the same power supply

I got one that I'm using that plugs into a 110v outlet so I'm just going to file that under N/A

 

[67Dart273]

Sounds like you have a plan. The instructions last two steps confuse me a bit. "An AC contactor is required for the circulation pump, and an AC contactor is required for the Heat pump power supply".
A language barrier to be certain, but the term contactor could be a relay, a switch, or a plug.

No a contactor is always a large relay. Something like a Ford fender mount "starter solenoid" could be called a contactor. A relay normally is a smaller one with a moveable armature on a hinge, while a contactor normally has stationary contacts with a separate piece that is pulled against them by the armature.

 

[67Dart273]

Normally ANY 240V appliance that has 120V "stuff" inside, such as controls or a control transformer, or maybe lighting needs a neutral. On a hot tube there is no frickin way that I would cheat on that wiring.

Having said that, I do cheat on my welders. Anything "portable" like welders or the outdoor 2 post uses a 2 wire plus ground 240 circuit and plug---3 prongs total.

The ONLY place that the green ground and the white neutral is supposed to come together is at the main box.

 

[diymirage]

This is what i done did, it turned out that load box actually accepts bewakers so my first plan (trying my wiring in on the top of the box, where the two hot lines attach) has been replaced with this:

I installed a 240v 20a 2 pole breaker which attaches to those two hot lines, and tied the 2 hots going into the pump to the "safe" side of the breaker

Of course the ground wire went on the ground lug

For the time being I'm using a set of L6-30 plugs to "cut" my wiring in half

That way, I can later find a water tight box I can mount an L6-30 recepticle in and we'll be all set

 

[grjammer]

So you have a white wire on the load side of your new breaker, just mark it with a piece of black tape if you do. Your new stuff will probably work.

My take on that original box is at some point, somebody removed a circuit breaker or disconnect, and moved the load red and black wires to the line side lugs. Which is the way it is still wired. The line side is nothing more than a junction, but is feeding what? I would look into what the box used to be protecting before the wires were moved. The line feed into that box likely originates in your main panel, tying to a breaker I would hope.

 

[diymirage]

So you have a white wire on the load side of your new breaker, just mark it with a piece of black tape if you do. Your new stuff will probably work.

My take on that original box is at some point, somebody removed a circuit breaker or disconnect, and moved the load red and black wires to the line side lugs. Which is the way it is still wired. The line side is nothing more than a junction, but is feeding what? I would look into what the box used to be protecting before the wires were moved. The line feed into that box likely originates in your main panel, tying to a breaker I would hope.

That box is fed by a second outdoor power distribution box that is mounted to the side of the house, and it has two double pole breakers in it, one 40amper that powers the homes AC unit, and one 50amper that feeds into this box...and from there to the back shed, into another breaker box

The part that was removed i dare say was a 240 volt feed for a hot tub that is no longer there

It almost looks like they "cut" the wire going into the shed to put a breaker for the hot tub there, and wired the back shed in parallel to it

I think

 

[grjammer]

You should be good then. Just wanted to ensure you were protected. Just identify the white wire going to the breaker with red or black tape to identify since it is a hot wire.