"Ran when pulled"

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Duece

Duece

Duece
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
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Calgary, AB
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a few months ago, I bought a 318/904 from a guy that pulled it out of a 91 half ton. He said he hadn't done a compression test on it but it ran good when he pulled it, he was using the body for a gen 1 cummins build and had no use for the motor or tranny. I picked it up for $200 so wasn't too worried if the guy was legit or not. My plan for it was to freshen up the top end following 318willrun's low budget build and then drop it in the valiant and run it for awhile; trying to keep to the budget

I finally got some time to start tearing into it to see what I had. Nothing looking out of the ordinary other than a really sloppy timing chain; until I pulled the heads....

All of the pistons had pretty heavy carbon build up on them, but one cylinder had scale on the bottom side, almost like it had water sitting in it.

I am pretty sure I know the answer to my question, but is there anything I can do to save from doing a complete bottom end job on this motor? Any ideas what would have caused it?

Pics aren't the best
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replicaracer43 said:
Doesn't look all that bad from here, probably WAS running fine when pulled
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I haven't torn down a lot of older engines before, and this one cylinder is different than anything I have seen before. I know it's been sitting for awhile but it seems like a lot of scaling in that one cylinder and I am not sure why it's just that one, nothing unusual on the head and the gasket was intact.

Are there any tricks to cleaning up the cylinders/pistons without damaging the rings or the cylinder walls ?
 
That could have been because a valve was open and moisture got in that way. I always take the rocker arm pressure off the springs if it's going to sit.
 
What's the engine oil like? Id think if main crank and rod journals are good then finish teardown. Relap valves yourself. New valve seals, home port the heads. Lots you can do in labor and a gasket kit to help that engine.
 
4spdragtop said:
What's the engine oil like? Id think if main crank and rod journals are good then finish teardown. Relap valves yourself. New valve seals, home port the heads. Lots you can do in labor and a gasket kit to help that engine.
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Oil actually looked pretty good, there was a bit of sludge at the bottom of the pan but nothing I was too concerned with.

The rusty scale on the cylinder is pretty hard, not sure how to remove it without damaging the cylinder or the rings. Any ideas?
 
Sedanman said:
That could have been because a valve was open and moisture got in that way. I always take the rocker arm pressure off the springs if it's going to sit.
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Thanks Sedanman, that makes sense. That makes me feel a lot better about moving forward with the bottom end
 
Go back and look at the head gasket on that side, over that cylinder. (Blown head gasket) You might find out that it was leaking a little water into that cylinder.
Norm
 
Try to push the piston a little further down and dingo hone the hell out of it?

Personally, I figure more than a few engines on the road have had similar issues and just get started and ran and sort themselves out.
 
In my twisted mind if there is any significant amount of water in it, it will find the lowest point in the engine...theboil pan. If not much was in the pan assume good?
Not sure how to remove scale?? Maybe oil up cylinders, remove pistons? Does it rotate?
See all my question marks???? It means I dont reallu know, but 318's are good engines and can take a fair bit of abuse.
 
4spdragtop said:
In my twisted mind if there is any significant amount of water in it, it will find the lowest point in the engine...theboil pan. If not much was in the pan assume good?
Not sure how to remove scale?? Maybe oil up cylinders, remove pistons? Does it rotate?
See all my question marks???? It means I dont reallu know, but 318's are good engines and can take a fair bit of abuse.
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Engine turns just fine, I rotated the piston lower but it was almost bottomed out already. There is no scaling below where it was sitting so I am thinking it must have got some water through an open valve somehow. The more I look at it, the more it seems ok I just am not sure how to clean the cylinder wall. The scaling is hard as hell
 
Rings aren't that expensive, pull the pistons out and try honing it out and see what what's under it. you might get lucky, or you might need to Bore it. Either way it is what it is :rolleyes: My block looked a lot like that and it needed to be bored. for $200 you still got a great deal.

You could just put back together and run it as is and let it smoke:lol:
 
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Yep, I do like sedanman, I loosen the rockers to shut the valves so no moisture gets in.
 
Valkman said:
Rings aren't that expensive, pull the pistons out and try honing it out and see what what's under it. you might get lucky,or you might need to it bored. Either way it is what it is :rolleyes: My block looked a lot like that and it needed to be bored. for $200 you still got a great deal.

You could just put back together and run it as is and let it smoke:lol:
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I totally agree. Pull it apart and just do rings and bearings after honing the cylinders and polishing the crank journals with 400 wet dry sandpaper. A freshen up like this could result in a great running engine that could last a long time. Worst case scenario is that you will be out $200 in parts, but I bet it will work.That is what I would do.
 
IDK, the first picture with the rust on the cylinder wall looks pretty bad and anpossible Hole In it? Viewing from a cell phone....
 
Nah - that's what they look like if it's not in a temperature controlled storage spot and a valve is open. No biggie.
 
my ''ran when pulled'' 360 looked just like that, i cleaned it up real nice, put on new oil pan, it lasted 4 hrs, oil pressure dropped like a rock. upon teardown the oil pump gears were beaten up pretty good. i had opened and inspected the pump but somehow something got in there. i'd say its 50/50 on chances it'll run good
 
thats why i always consider a motor out of a car that i can not hear run as just a core and pay accordingly for it.. yes they all ran great when pulled. thats why they were pulled right...lol
 
So I went at it last night for about an hour or so with some carb cleaner, WD-40 and some very LIGHT 400 grit. Managed to remove about 80% of it and there doesn't appear to be any cylinder damage. i still may pull the pistons and do the bottom end, but going to fill the cylinder with oil tonight and let it soak a bit and try to remove the rest. To be perfectly honest, I have never changed out rings before and am nervous of doing that myself...but the whole purpose of this car was to learn new stuff so I need to quit being a Nancy about it. Do it right.
Thanks for all the replies and input guys! Will keep you posted
 
IF you can pull that piston down past the rust you may be able to clean the rust with steel wool or use one of the 3m plastic paint stripper wheels on a drill to knock the rust edges off and use the engine as is. They work pretty good and don't cut into metal
 
Is the top of the one piston different from the rest???? I'm looking at your 1st three pictures, and the one piston looks shaped different from the rest, or is it just the picture...
 
That wheel will clean it up in seconds so pay attention to the speed. That wheel will also get the crud off of the piston tops when your done too.
 
318willrun said:
Is the top of the one piston different from the rest???? I'm looking at your 1st three pictures, and the one piston looks shaped different from the rest, or is it just the picture...
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Yes good eye. The front piston on both sides of the engine have indentation, the other 6 are all the same. I actually didn't even notice as all I was focusing on was the rust. Was that a factory thing in the early 90's or do I have a pieced together motor?

So glad I only paid $200 for this thing lol. And that was CDN pesos
 
Sedanman said:
That wheel will clean it up in seconds so pay attention to the speed. That wheel will also get the crud off of the piston tops when your done too.
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Do you happen to have a link for those wheels by chance?
 
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