Rebuild 318 or go Crate

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Fitz68 said:
Thanks everyone for the feedback! Yep, I'm in St.Pete FL. It seems like I might be better off getting discs all around(I'm still gonna try for hydro boost) and getting the wheels and tires on there. I have to admit, all you guys with thousands of posts and conflicting opinions have my head swimming at the moment...so many paths forward! I really want to do as much of the work myself as I can so I can increase my knowledge, yet space and tools are an issue. Also--I don't know how much of an appetite I have for spending even more money fixing my mistakes. Those of you defending the 318--what did you do that made it what you wanted? I mean--enough to keep it over going up to 340/360? I've studied that rebuild post for $1500 a few times over the past month--I just don't feel its realistic without knowing exactly what to look for and how to troubleshoot used parts and issues.
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I threw a 318 together for my daily driver 68 Barracuda back in the 80's. I took a short block that my brother gave me that he decided he wasn't going to use. He had it ready to go, 60 k original mile 72 block with forged 10.5 TRW pistons.

I put the top end of my 68 318 on there, the old cam from my brother's Lil Red Express pick-up truck (stock 340 auto cam), Rhoades lifters, and 2 bbl. I put it in my car for $300 including fluids.

However, it had too much compression and was overheating after 20 minutes when the temp got over 80° F. My engines teacher told me that my compression was too high and to lower it.

I found a set of 77 360 heads with a fresh valve job and stock spread bore intake for $150. Then got a stock 69 340 intake so I could run a holley 600 vac secondary carb. This brought my compression down to 9.2 and was fine after that. Great daily driver.

I put that engine together and it got 17.75 MPG highway and lasted over 200 k miles before I rebuilt it again for another 250 k.....

With the 2 bbl heads and carb it idled at 24" vacuum, and only dropped to 22.5" vacuum when I put the 360 heads and 4 bbl carb on it... I was able to run a 10.5 power valve and still be able to part throttle accelerate over 10" vacuum for better economy...


I had less than $1000 in it total, as it was put together with spare parts that we had laying around already.... All I had to buy was fluids and a gasket kit to install it in my car originally.

Stock 318 exhaust manifolds with a 2 1/4" dual exhaust and turbo mufflers...

Great engine. It wouldn't smoke the tires off the line (2.76 gear), but would still go when you jammed the pedal to the floor. (ask the cop that pulled me over once and was very impressed with the performance. I got pulled over one day after work when my wife called me to tell me our son, 4 y/o, had jumped out of a tree in our yard and broke his arm...)

There's nothing wrong with a 318 for a daily driver. Yeah, 340's and 360's can make a little more power, but a 318 will still get the job done.... And they can be had much cheaper...
 
That cam was way too mild for Rhoads lifters. There was your cylinder pressure problem.
 
Thanks Rusty--I don't want to create drama here but please spare your condescending commentary. Why do you think I came to this forum = because I want to learn from people like you and can tell there is something wrong with the magazines. That said, you didn't really comment on whether you thought I should rebuild the block. You also haven't mentioned your thoughts on how you would achieve the HP--just told me that the stock engine should already get me most of the way there. So what would you do? Obviously leaving the engine stock (or as much so as possible) would help me and budget situation. Any recommendations on a Cam kit?
 
I wasn't being condescending at all. Just giving advice. Only trying to enforce the strong position that the horse power level you are looking for is readily achievable using the stock block, rotating assembly and heads.

I did recommend a camshaft. Something close to the 340 cam. Anything in that range will be fine.

And yes, I am all for rebuilding the 318.

If I wanted to be condescending, I would have said something like "750 for headers? You're a dumbass!"

There would have been no doubt about it. I simply worded it like I did to emphasize the fact that you don't have to copy what the big spenders are doing to get the power you're looking for.

If you're lookin for somebody to hold your hand and give you a pacifier, I ain't your boy. No offense meant. If you want good, sound, blunt to the point advice, I'll be glad to help.
 
Mopar Tim said:
You guys sure disrespect the 318. NOTHING wrong with it. 300 hp ? no problem. Just saying. And you will say "might as well build a 360, it will cost the same" NOT true.
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Take a dart with a 340 or a stroker or a 360 for that matter and compare it to a 318 car. Which will pull more money on re-sale?

Also, please inform me how it costs more to build a 360 vs. a 318?


moper said:
I'm not into the big wheels and tires on the earlier cars - but some are and they aren't cheap. I installed 12 & 13" brakes on an Ebody, with the hydroboost, and 18s with Nitto rubber... The parts bill alone was 5 figures. But, it did stop on a dime and has pulled beyond 1g on the skidpad. Whatever floats your boat.
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17's are a nice compromise on the older stuff.
 
Fitz68 said:
Thanks Rusty--I don't want to create drama here but please spare your condescending commentary.
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The problem here is adding what you think they words sound like.
Rob makes excellent points on saving money. Rebuilding an engine can be done a lot cheaper than what you lined out.
 
To get 300hp from a stock 318 2bbl you need some bolt ons. You don't need a full rebuild, and IMO if it ain't broke don't fix it when you're on a tight budget. If it's broke that's another matter...lol.

I also agree 100% with those who say it is virtually the same cost to rebuild a 360 vs a 318. 340s are a little more (less than $100 difference) mainly due to the piston costs. It's not "[I'm] down on the 318s". It's that economically in many cases if you need to source an engine you will get more value & reward from finding and rebuilding a 360 vs a 318 assuming both are available locally. If you can't get a 360 , the 318 in terms of output and feel is the same engine as a 340 once you rebuild it for performance.

Truth is there are a bunch of ways to get what you want. It's your car, your experience and tools, your downtime assuming daily driver status, and your money. So come up with your plan and either make sure you account for everything, or make sure you leave 10% of the total budget for stuff you forget and tools you don't have.
 
krazykuda said:
But they were also what was getting me to 22.5" and 24" intake manifold vacuum....
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You don't know that, because you did no comparison with and without them. Just because the cam was made "smaller" does not mean it was more efficient for that particular combo.

I like Rhoads lifters too, but I wouldn't use then in even a 273 with something 220@ .050 or less. JMO.

But this is kinda getting off topic. I wouldn't mind a Rhoads lifters discussion. Might be a good thread idea.
 
I would be in the "build a 360" crowd too if your HP goals were say 350-375 HP. 350 is about the tradeoff point for budget/streetability for a 318. Then the 360 becomes the more obvious choice.

I leave out the 340, because they are getting scarce and IMO should be saved for restorations. But the same can be done with them, too. Plus, you will also pay much more for a 340 core than a 318 or 360. Just more food for thought.

But I am 110% behind the 318 build here and will not recommend the 360, unless you already have one layin around as a doorstop. In fact, "I" would build the teen even if I wanted around 350 HP. JMO.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I would be in the "build a 360" crowd too if your HP goals were say 350-375 HP. 350 is about the tradeoff point for budget/streetability for a 318. Then the 360 becomes the more obvious choice.

I leave out the 340, because they are getting scarce and IMO should be saved for restorations. But the same can be done with them, too. Plus, you will also pay much more for a 340 core than a 318 or 360. Just more food for thought.

But I am 110% behind the 318 build here and will not recommend the 360, unless you already have one layin around as a doorstop. In fact, "I" would build the teen even if I wanted around 350 HP. JMO.
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Excellent, thanks--this is very helpful. If I was gonna go racing I might go up in size..but for now I think the 318 makes the most sense. Should I do the rebuild just to ensure I'll be good for the foreseeable future and so I can use regular unleaded gas--or do I just go with adding lead and wait until it breaks down (if ever) before doing the rebuild?
 
1. Does it NEED to be rebuilt?!?!
2. The use of regular gas is dependent on the engines compression ratio as well as cam used. An example of this would be my 11-1, 360 that can use 93 octane.
3. Don't bother adding lead.
4. Making use of the current engine to racing will save you money up front with the abilty to have fun while going quick. Notice I did t say fast. That's because fast is a relative term. Depends on who is driving the car and what there used to doing. A 10 second car owner/racer will balk at a 12 second car while a 6 second door slammed driver will laugh at a 10 second ride as being quick.
What's quick to you and how deep are your pockets?
What is the intended goal for going fast?
 
It depends on the model year as to whether it needs lead in the gas. It if it a 73 or newer I believe, it has hardened exhaust seats for unleaded fuel already. Maybe someone will correct me if I am mistaken about the year. I cannot be 100% sure.

Also, one more plus for the little 318. Mileage. The 318 out perform the 340 or 360 head and shoulders on mileage with a mild build. Smaller bore = less fuel burned.

For a good snappy street car that will be capable of some economy too, the 318 is really unbeatable.
 
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