ride height question

[michiganpat]

Hey all,

I just wanted to get some feedback on my car after I rebuilt the suspension this winter and replaced the factory 10" SBP drums with '73 spindles and discs. I forgot to take before pictures under the car, but the pic in front of the building is from last fall before I did the swap.

I set the ride height about 3/4" lower than what my FSM states ('76 FSM gives a measurement from the ground to the bottom of the t-bar socket on the LCA), and it still feels a bit high, as I see a number of people with cars on here where the top of the tire is flush to ever so slightly tucked into the top of the wheelwell. but I only have about 1/2" clearance from the frame contact point to the lower bump stops. just wondering if this looks correct or if there is something wonky going on before I get it aligned thursday. for reference, tires are 195/70R14....

I upgraded the t-bars to some NOS .92" diameter, and new to me rear springs are the used 6 leafs out of BrianT's car replacing the 33 year old 5 leaf SD springs..

also, the Hellwig sway bar install pics show the swaybar links basically touching that rivet head, but that's where it ended up at the ride height that I have set. for those of you who have added one, did yours end up in a similar position?

I didn't get a chance this weekend to jack it up and see if I can move the bump stops at all to change the contact point, maybe get me a little more clearance. is the clearance I have enough?

 

[SIX225]

Did you replace the lower control arm bushings? I believe the pivolt is suppose to be torqued after the ride height is set otherwise they may be binding.

 

[S'cuder]

I think it looks really good. If you want it lower, you could cut the sway bar links to get more clearance. And like SIX225 said above, when using rubber control arm bushings only torque control arm bolts after setting final ride height.

 

[michiganpat]

Did you replace the lower control arm bushings? I believe the pivolt is suppose to be torqued after the ride height is set otherwise they may be binding.

yup, replaced all the bushings, and I torqued both the lower and upper control arm bushings after ride height was set and sitting on the ground on my makeshift turn plates (2 pieces of laminate flooring with grease between them, as seen in the front wheel close up)

 

[michiganpat]

I think it looks really good. If you want it lower, you could cut the sway bar links to get more clearance. And like SIX225 said above, when using rubber control arm bushings only torque control arm bolts after setting final ride height.

sway bar links clear the frame pad for the bump stops. I'm more curious on others' ride height vs. lower control arm bump stop clearance. those are MOOG K3180's. mine's currently about 1/2"-5/8" max (see arrow) for the ride height shown--195/70R14 tires, at 33 psi, the bottom of the center of the wheelwell is about 25.25" from ground (about the same as the rear in the picture with it's 215/70R14 tires).

 

[BrianT]

Looking good @michiganpat !

 

[remytherat]

I shaved the bump stops a little to get a bit more clearance. They can be close, but ideally not resting on the stops.

 

[michiganpat]

I can't remember if the hole on the LCA is slotted, I was going to see if I can shift it outboard and gain clearance, next step was to potentially take it off and reprofile it on the bandsaw at work to get some more clearance, as it feels like when I push down hard on the corner I'm getting to the bump stop. I'd really like the front end down another 1/2-3/4", but I don't feel like I can afford the lack of clearance to the bump stop....

 

[Jim Lusk]

I bought some low profile LCA bumpers from Summit. They're more like buttons. We have also cut some factory ones down. I like to have about an inch between the bumper and frame.

Energy Suspension 9.9102G Energy Suspension Bump Stops | Summit Racing

 

[autoxcuda]

Hey all,

I just wanted to get some feedback on my car after I rebuilt the suspension this winter and replaced the factory 10" SBP drums with '73 spindles and discs. I forgot to take before pictures under the car, but the pic in front of the building is from last fall before I did the swap.

I set the ride height about 3/4" lower than what my FSM states ('76 FSM gives a measurement from the ground to the bottom of the t-bar socket on the LCA), and it still feels a bit high, as I see a number of people with cars on here where the top of the tire is flush to ever so slightly tucked into the top of the wheelwell. but I only have about 1/2" clearance from the frame contact point to the lower bump stops. just wondering if this looks correct or if there is something wonky going on before I get it aligned thursday. for reference, tires are 195/70R14....

I upgraded the t-bars to some NOS .92" diameter, and new to me rear springs are the used 6 leafs out of BrianT's car replacing the 33 year old 5 leaf SD springs..

also, the Hellwig sway bar install pics show the swaybar links basically touching that rivet head, but that's where it ended up at the ride height that I have set. for those of you who have added one, did yours end up in a similar position?

I didn't get a chance this weekend to jack it up and see if I can move the bump stops at all to change the contact point, maybe get me a little more clearance. is the clearance I have enough?

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.92" torsion bars will help.

Do the tops of the rear wheel lips measure lower then the fronts?

Probably would not lower front more. Or you can run these shorter bump stops https://www.prothanesuspensionparts...NM9LOVBqjykyZEDhOyYMd1_pDBZcNFSIaAngGEALw_wcB

 

[forphorty]

two pics of same car, about 12 years apart. First pic had 205/70-15 on front. second pic , 165/80-15. I don't recall how close the bump stops are. Tires tuck up in the fender a little. I believe the 165/80-15 is 25.5 diameter.

 

[72bluNblu]

Hey all,

I just wanted to get some feedback on my car after I rebuilt the suspension this winter and replaced the factory 10" SBP drums with '73 spindles and discs. I forgot to take before pictures under the car, but the pic in front of the building is from last fall before I did the swap.

I set the ride height about 3/4" lower than what my FSM states ('76 FSM gives a measurement from the ground to the bottom of the t-bar socket on the LCA), and it still feels a bit high, as I see a number of people with cars on here where the top of the tire is flush to ever so slightly tucked into the top of the wheelwell. but I only have about 1/2" clearance from the frame contact point to the lower bump stops. just wondering if this looks correct or if there is something wonky going on before I get it aligned thursday. for reference, tires are 195/70R14....

I upgraded the t-bars to some NOS .92" diameter, and new to me rear springs are the used 6 leafs out of BrianT's car replacing the 33 year old 5 leaf SD springs..

also, the Hellwig sway bar install pics show the swaybar links basically touching that rivet head, but that's where it ended up at the ride height that I have set. for those of you who have added one, did yours end up in a similar position?

I didn't get a chance this weekend to jack it up and see if I can move the bump stops at all to change the contact point, maybe get me a little more clearance. is the clearance I have enough?

View attachment 1716252258

View attachment 1716252259

View attachment 1716252260

View attachment 1716252261

View attachment 1716252269

The short answer is, no, you can't lower your car any more from where it's at now with the parts you have unless you want your bump stops to be the determining factory of your ride quality instead of your torsion bars. A 1/2" between your bump stop and frame horn, with .92" torsion bars pretty much guarantees that your bump stops will frequently hit the frame. The factory rubber bump stops are progressive, and were intended to come in to contact with the frame, but I think you're going to be using your bump stops more often than you want to at your current height.

You have some things working against you. Your 195/70/14's are only 24.7" tall. That's a pretty short tire, and tucking them up into the fender will put your LCA's on the frame.

To get into how things work, when you lower the car with the torsion bar adjusters you're changing the angle of the LCA with respect to the torsion bar socket. That lowers the car, but in the process it means you lose suspension travel. So you have to compensate for that lost travel somehow, or you'll just bottom out the suspension all the time. One way to do this is to increase the spring rate- bigger torsion bars. The bigger the torsion bar, the higher the wheel rate will be, and the less suspension travel you will actually use. The bad news is, .92" is still a pretty small bar when it comes to making up for lost suspension travel.

The other way to do that is to make the bump stop smaller, which has been suggested already. The factory bump stops are 1 3/8" tall, so you can gain a bunch of travel back by making those shorter. But there's no free lunch! As I said already, the factory bump stops are progressive. They were designed to be part of the suspension system, and with factory size torsion bars, even at factory stock ride height, the bump stops get used a decent amount. Most people don't even notice, they're pretty soft so if you only hit them lightly it's not a big input. But, if you shorten them they get less progressive in nature and that first hit is a bigger one, which will be more noticeable in your ride quality. If you install a "button" style polyurethane mount, well, you'll absolutely notice if you hit that- they're not progressive at all, they have very little give and their purpose is basically just to keep from going metal on metal.

So how do people get that tucked in front tire look? Well a lot of them just ride on the bump stops. I've literally had conversations with people here that didn't know their cars were actually just sitting on the bump stops at ride height. Not even kidding.

The other way is a lot of work. My car is lowered so the LCA's are parallel to the ground, if you look at the earlier FSM's it means A-B=0, instead of the 1 7/8" it's supposed to be. In order to do that I run QA1 tubular LCA's, the old version of which are almost 1" shorter in profile height than the stock LCA- so I got 1" of travel back right there. I run 3/8" button style poly bump stops on the frame, so, that's another 1" right there. And you're thinking "well that's all of it" - but it isn't, because if you don't account for the factory suspension using the bump stops all the time you'll still have a terrible ride with those poly stops that you basically never want to use. So on top of that, I run 1.12" torsion bars. All of that leaves me with a little less than 1" of clearance from the bump stop to the frame (actually bump stop to LCA in my case), and even with 1.12" bars I still occasionally contact those stops.

 

[michiganpat]

.92" torsion bars will help.

Do the tops of the rear wheel lips measure lower then the fronts?

Probably would not lower front more. Or you can run these shorter bump stops https://www.prothanesuspensionparts...NM9LOVBqjykyZEDhOyYMd1_pDBZcNFSIaAngGEALw_wcB

pretty much level. both are about 25.25", but the rear tires are over an inch taller (215/70's) that's probably the bigger reason I don't want to raise it up more, is I don't want the nose up look.

had I realized it would be sitting this high, I probably would have bought the magnumforce drop spindles when I did the brake swap to maintain suspension travel with the bars and ride height I wanted to use.....could have had an inch more travel while also having the rear lowered a little more, and still have a moderate rate T-bar.

 

[72bluNblu]

pretty much level. both are about 25.25", but the rear tires are over an inch taller (215/70's) that's probably the bigger reason I don't want to raise it up more, is I don't want the nose up look.

had I realized it would be sitting this high, I probably would have bought the magnumforce drop spindles when I did the brake swap to maintain suspension travel with the bars and ride height I wanted to use.....could have had an inch more travel while also having the rear lowered a little more, and still have a moderate rate T-bar.

Sure, but you’d also have dramatically worse bump steer and a loss of camber gain on compression that also come with using the 2” drop spindles on these cars.

I ran MagnumForce drop spindles on my Challenger for awhile before I knew better. The bump steer is noticeable. Not to mention you lose wheel clearance, basically means your backspace clearance is reduced to that of a smaller diameter wheel. For example, your 17” wheel now has tie rod end clearance issues like a 15” wheel.

Everything is a trade off with suspension. Drop spindles are basically only worthwhile if you’re planning a significant, and purely cosmetic, lowering. If you’re lowering to improve handling, it’s better to do the dance of matching the drop to the increase in wheel rate with a larger torsion bar. The other thing is, just because the LCA isn’t bottoming out doesn’t mean something else won’t. On A-bodies, a 2” drop makes the clearance between the top of the wheel and the inner fender an issue with the suspension at full compression.

 

[autoxcuda]

pretty much level. both are about 25.25", but the rear tires are over an inch taller (215/70's) that's probably the bigger reason I don't want to raise it up more, is I don't want the nose up look.

had I realized it would be sitting this high, I probably would have bought the magnumforce drop spindles when I did the brake swap to maintain suspension travel with the bars and ride height I wanted to use.....could have had an inch more travel while also having the rear lowered a little more, and still have a moderate rate T-bar.

Sounds like your new rear springs are a little lower than expected.

I would just leave ride height alone. doesn't sound or look bad to me.

 

[michiganpat]

Sounds like your new rear springs are a little lower than expected.

I would just leave ride height alone. doesn't sound or look bad to me.

yeah, the rear is sitting about where it should be, I was expecting the 6 leaf HD's to lift it up a little more than it did over my old 5 leaves based on the pics of BrianT's car, (it's about 1/2" higher than the 5 leafs were)...it might be nice to get the back another 1/2" higher or so at the most....

More than anything, I just wanted confirmation that things generally look right and I didn't mess anything up causing the front to sit higher than it should, as I forgot to take pics and measurements of where it was sitting before tearing it apart to compare ride height and bump stop clearance. I'm pretty sure it was sitting a little lower in the front originally with the 10" drums.

The wife is already grumpy with what I've sunk into the suspension rebuild/disc upgrade, and I still have to do the rear end bolt pattern conversion. I was planning on a ford ranger rear, but I might just get lazy and get bolt on adapters for now....bummer AMC/Chrysler made the XJ rear just a skoash too wide (60.5" on the dana 35, and assuming the 8.25's are the same, which is 3.38" wider than my SBP 7.25) as they are everywhere around here for cheap.

I had wanted to get some 17x8 vision 148 wheels with 225/45's Nittos in front and 255/50's in the rears, but given my wife's disgruntledness, I'll just stick with the $200 set of BBP 14's I found locally for the near future and getting new 195/70 front 225/70 rear to replace the current 14 year old hockey pucks. Hankook kinergy's are $400+tax for the set on tire rack vs $634 for the Nittos....at least all are made in the USA....

 

[michiganpat]

I bought some low profile LCA bumpers from Summit. They're more like buttons. We have also cut some factory ones down. I like to have about an inch between the bumper and frame.

Energy Suspension 9.9102G Energy Suspension Bump Stops | Summit Racing

think I'm going to cut/reprofile the moog ones to keep the basic shape, but gain another half inch of clearance this weekend.....

 

[michiganpat]

when I assembled my suspension and did the initital setup, I had put the UCA's in a position for max caster (my moog offset bushings installed for max caster, and then the front adjuster all the way out, rear adjuster all the way in)

welp, got the car aligned yesterday, I gave the tech the SKOASH recommendations for performance street, (-.5 degree camber, 1/16-1/8 to in) with the caveat for "as much positive caster as you can up to 5 degrees". and this is what he ended up with:

only down side is now the car is sitting 1/2" higher in front than it was when I got there, and he didn't adjust the torsion bars at all.... when I measured to the bottom of the rockers at the front and rear of the door, the back end of the rocker is about 1/2" lower than the front....

 

[michiganpat]

It does drive and track very nice now. I know if I back the bars off to get the front down to where it was before bringing it in, it's going to affect the alignment. I'm guessing it will increase negative camber a skoash, which would in turn cause the toe to go to more toe-out? How would it affect caster? Wondering if I can get away with lowering back down 1/2" and resetting toe with a tape measure and homemade toe plates.