Rocker Stands For Magnum Valve Train??

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Mad Dart

Mad Dart

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Question,

Anybody know of a company that makes rocker stands for Magnum Valve Train...........I am trying to fix the geometry without using Lash caps.

If someone does know please let me know. I found these but my rocker studs have been upgraded to 7/16. I will call Don tomorrow.

Check these out, anybody using them???

http://www.4secondsflat.com/FBO_EQ Cylinder heads.htm

Help
 
Hughes Engines now has a shaft-mounted rocker arm kit for Magnum small block heads. PN HUG 1555 @ $475. Check it out.
 
In your other post I asked this.... Where is the rocker tip in terms of the valve tip at 1/2 lift? Van you take a pic of the sweap and starting .max lift areas?
 
moper said:
In your other post I asked this.... Where is the rocker tip in terms of the valve tip at 1/2 lift? Van you take a pic of the sweap and starting .max lift areas?
Click to expand...

Right about 1/2 way across the valve tip. It seems to roll, once it starts constantly the roller rocker tip never seems to push the valve down and stay in the same spot at all.

I try and take some pictures of how it travels on Tuesday and post them.
 
ocdart said:
Hughes Engines now has a shaft-mounted rocker arm kit for Magnum small block heads. PN HUG 1555 @ $475. Check it out.
Click to expand...

I called Hughes about 2 weeks ago and talked to Kevin, he said these rockers are still a long way off. I seen them in their flyer. If you type in the part number it comes up blank on their site.
 
70aarcuda said:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5560172&an=0&page=2#Post5560172

he said they would be in on wednesday on this board........
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Got it.....I hope they work better than the ones I am trying to set up now that I bought from HUGHES!!!!!! I want to make these work and I am probably going to run them.....dont want to spend another $500.00 on parts that I already have. If I did not have them they would be on the fed ex truck Monday being delivered to me! If they end up not working I will buy them and sell my current set up complete with the Jomar Girdles.
 
Hey MD don't forget your heads are already drilled and tapped out bigger. How would you manage using the Hughes rockers since they use the small 5/16" bolts?
 
fishy68 said:
Hey MD don't forget your heads are already drilled and tapped out bigger. How would you manage using the Hughes rockers since they use the small 5/16" bolts?
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The new tapped hole is 7/16 and the shaft of the stud is 3/8 on my studs.

The factory ones are 5/16 with 3/8 shaft.

Check out Bobby's post on Indy/RHS X heads, he shows the picture of the stock ones I sent him and the new ones that he installed.
 
Mad Dart said:
The new tapped hole is 7/16 and the shaft of the stud is 3/8 on my studs.

The factory ones are 5/16 with 3/8 shaft.

They would work....
Click to expand...

I understand the shaft is the same size. What would you do about the hole being 7/16 now and the Hughes rockers being 5/16 thread on the bottom?
 
fishy68 said:
I understand the shaft is the same size. What would you do about the hole being 7/16 now and the Hughes rockers being 5/16 thread on the bottom?
Click to expand...

I guess I need to understand better. So they must have their own hardware then that goes with the shaft mounted rockers. I forgot you have seen them up close........Is that how they are??

If that is the case I will just stick with the Lash Caps I am ordering. I am getting really tired of all the crap I have been running into with this build and the magnum style heads. I will never, ever use this valve train set up again.
Shaft mounted LA style heads from now on. I will be ordering some new heads for my 349 stroker that will be LA style with out a doubt! Cheaper to set up also it seems. I got all the parts except the Heads for that one. I will have about 3k into that one from Carb to Pan.
 
Mad Dart said:
I guess I need to understand better. So they must have their own hardware then that goes with the shaft mounted rockers. I forgot you have seen them up close........Is that how they are??

If that is the case I will just stick with the Lash Caps I am ordering. I am getting really tired of all the crap I have been running into with this build and the magnum style heads. I will never, ever use this valve train set up again.
Shaft mounted LA style heads from now on. I will be ordering some new heads for my 349 stroker that will be LA style with out a doubt! Cheaper to set up also it seems. I got all the parts except the Heads for that one. I will have about 3k into that one from Carb to Pan.
Click to expand...

I didn't actually get to see them because they didn't have them yet. I am just judging by the pics and that Dave Hughes told me they bolt down solid like the aftermarket perf. Chevy stuff. Apparently they use a special stud and stand that secures them to the head at the fulcrom. Therefore they don't adjust like the ones you have which are like a chevy. Their adjuster is on the pushrod end just like an LA rocker.

Here's a link to a set of aftermarket Chevy rockers that I think these are designed like.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSP-SLS17/

BTW: Did you use any Prussian blue on the valve tip to see just how close it's getting to the edge? Alot of times by the naked eye they look pretty close but if you use some Prussian blue you'll see it's not that bad.

I know what you mean about the magnum style rocker system. I sold my original setup to go with their new style so I don't need girdles. If I had it to do over again I'd have waited until the RHS heads were out and went with them in the LA rocker arm style.
 
fishy68 said:
I didn't actually get to see them because they didn't have them yet. I am just judging by the pics and that Dave Hughes told me they bolt down solid like the aftermarket perf. Chevy stuff. Apparently they use a special stud and stand that secures them to the head at the fulcrom. Therefore they don't adjust like the ones you have which are like a chevy. Their adjuster is on the pushrod end just like an LA rocker.

Here's a link to a set of aftermarket Chevy rockers that I think these are designed like.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSP-SLS17/

BTW: Did you use any Prussian blue on the valve tip to see just how close it's getting to the edge? Alot of times by the naked eye they look pretty close but if you use some Prussian blue you'll see it's not that bad.

I know what you mean about the magnum style rocker system. I sold my original setup to go with their new style so I don't need girdles. If I had it to do over again I'd have waited until the RHS heads were out and went with them in the LA rocker arm style.
Click to expand...

Those look SWEET!! If the ones Hughes will be selling are anything like that you made a good choice to go that route. You and I have talked before about us guys wanting something else after the purchase, sort of buyers remorse.......that is where I am at with the magnums. At least you will have the latest and greatest stuff on the market. Just get it running before something else comes out!! haaaaaa:-D

It does seem that someone could machine a new stand and have it work with a 7/16 stud that had a 3/8 shaft if you really had to have it that way.
Then just use the stock adjusting nut to hold it down on the stand?? But then you would have another cost, unless you had the lathe etc to make them yourself. Just another thought?
 
Fishy,

Where do I get some Persian Blue?? From my machinist?? I will get some today if possible to do a wipe test on the tip of the valve and post some pictures of the whole process.

Thanks in advance for your input and help!!
 
MD, that's why I was looking for pics...lol. You just need some machinist's dye. You could probably buy a can from any local shop. Or clean the parts well and I'd bet they will make a visible mark anyway. If the rocker is centered on the stem at mid lift, you should be ok. Recall these are 1.6 ratio, not 1.5. So the sweep will be greater.
 
I just use magic marker on the valve stem.

I had no geometry problems with the stock magnum heads or the Iron Ram heads I got from Hughes.
 
moper said:
MD, that's why I was looking for pics...lol. You just need some machinist's dye. You could probably buy a can from any local shop. Or clean the parts well and I'd bet they will make a visible mark anyway. If the rocker is centered on the stem at mid lift, you should be ok. Recall these are 1.6 ratio, not 1.5. So the sweep will be greater.
Click to expand...

I will post some pictures later tonight hopefully. I just got off the phone with Dave at Hughes. I talked to him for 20 minutes and I swear he didnt listen to a word I said, at the end of our conversation he says OHHHHH, you got those rockers, I got to go I have another call...........He was dead set on selling me the new shaft mounted rockers and using a KEEN spacer to bring my 7/16 studs back to 5/16.......Only wanted to sell me NEW parts, not help me fix the problem that I have with the CRAP he already sold to me......NOT HAPPY right now at all!!!
 
That's kind of normal mode of operation there. I've avoided talking to them since... oh... '99 or so.
 
Ok, I may be going blind It seems to be Ok after doing the Wipe Test.
The Roller Tip Rockers give an OPTICAL ILLUSION along with me going BLIND I guess.........The whole process is VERY DECEIVING to say the least!!

First Picture here at NO LIFT.

IMG_0534.jpg

No Lift again

IMG_0535.jpg

This is at 1/2 lift

IMG_0536.jpg

This is Full Lift

IMG_0537.jpg

This is the Wipe Test.......I put a magic marker on it and the marks barely showed up so I cleaned it up and used a straight edge to show more detail of what is going on.


IMG_0540.jpg

IMG_0534.jpg


IMG_0535.jpg


IMG_0536.jpg


IMG_0537.jpg


IMG_0540.jpg
 
As the Rocker tip goes down it moves across the valve toward the exhaust and then back to where it started.

Dave at hughes said to me this morning that with the new SHAFT mounted rockers the Rocker tip will start just off center toward the valley, go across the valve at mid lift and then end up where it started at full lift reversing the process when the valve goes back to the seat or NO lift position.
 
360Z28 said:
who drilled and tapped the heads for larger studs?
Click to expand...

Bobby at BJR drilled and tapped them.........

Forgot to mention that my set up uses Guide Plates and Girdles. They were taken off during this test because the adjusting push rod I have is TOO thick and would not fit in the Guide Plate. I made sure the roller was lined up on the valve during this process.
 
That pattern looks real good to me. I don't see a problem with it.

That sucks how Dave talked to you today. I hate it when guys just want to sell parts. I'd be ticked too.

BTW: Sorry I couldn't answer earlier but I see you got it taken care of anyway. I forgot about being able to use a marker. I have never done it but I've heard of it being done. Looks like it works good.
 
fishy68 said:
That pattern looks real good to me. I don't see a problem with it.

That sucks how Dave talked to you today. I hate it when guys just want to sell parts. I'd be ticked too.

BTW: Sorry I couldn't answer earlier but I see you got it taken care of anyway. I forgot about being able to use a marker. I have never done it but I've heard of it being done. Looks like it works good.
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Fishy,

With the permanent marker it didnt show up very well, I kind of moved the rocker back and forth just enough to make a mark on the valve itself at fully closed and full lift. Then I used a straight edge and the permanent marker to show what you see..............I still cant believe the OPTICAL ILLUSION that I was getting just by looking at it. I guess it is because the furthest part of the roller tip since it is round is hanging off the valve??

Anyway ordered my push rods today from shop locally here in Lake Elsinore Ca, Price was high but I got hardened .083 wall thickness with carbide titanium/platinum mixed ends on it??? They said something weird like that anyway. I pick them up at 8:00 in the morning. OUCH at $160.00 out the door. The length if anybody was wondering came in at 7.654 so I just ordered 7.650's. I don't think .004 would make a difference.......haa
 
Mad Dart said:
Fishy,

With the permanent marker it didnt show up very well, I kind of moved the rocker back and forth just enough to make a mark on the valve itself at fully closed and full lift. Then I used a straight edge and the permanent marker to show what you see..............I still cant believe the OPTICAL ILLUSION that I was getting just by looking at it. I guess it is because the furthest part of the roller tip since it is round is hanging off the valve??

Anyway ordered my push rods today from shop locally here in Lake Elsinore Ca, Price was high but I got hardened .083 wall thickness with carbide titanium/platinum mixed ends on it??? They said something weird like that anyway. I pick them up at 8:00 in the morning. OUCH at $160.00 out the door. The length if anybody was wondering came in at 7.654 so I just ordered 7.650's. I don't think .004 would make a difference.......haa
Click to expand...

Oh OK. I heard the marker trick works but never tried it. I know what you mean about the optical illusion. A long time ago I ran into the same thing. I thought the geometry was way off on an engine I had just by looking at the rocker action but after using some Prussian blue dye it looked just fine.

Ouch that is alot for pushrods but it sounds like you got some real good ones.
 
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