I have an option to use either the standard rubber parts or polyurethane parts. Any recommendations, pros and cons will be appreciated.
Rubber or Poly sway bar bushings
- Thread starter charliec
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MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
For me.. always poly for the end links.
I feel there's more contact area 'not as crucial as links' and more resonance dampening with rubber at the mounts.
Some people have a hard time getting the poly ones into the brackets, especially when they've been crashed into the street hitting bigger than expected dips and railroad crossings...lol
I feel there's more contact area 'not as crucial as links' and more resonance dampening with rubber at the mounts.
Some people have a hard time getting the poly ones into the brackets, especially when they've been crashed into the street hitting bigger than expected dips and railroad crossings...lol
I always recommend mostly street, rubber. It comes down to personal choice really.
With something like a sway bar there's literally no reason to have rubber. You want the sway bar to move smoothly and act quickly, and poly is better for both of those actions on a sway bar. They're easily accessible if they need to be greased later too.
Using rubber at the mounts will create more resistance to the sway bar twisting, which isn't what you want. And at the end links the rubber bushings will take up some of the LCA movement before the sway bar moves, delaying it's action.
Using rubber at the mounts will create more resistance to the sway bar twisting, which isn't what you want. And at the end links the rubber bushings will take up some of the LCA movement before the sway bar moves, delaying it's action.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
What? You need back up from a guy that has single handedly destroyed every poly bushing he's ever touched?
This isn't a difficult concept. At the end links, the softer the bushing material is the slower the sway bar will react to suspension movement because the suspension has to compress the end link bushings before the sway bar starts to twist. Poly is much stiffer than rubber, so, at the end links the poly bushings will mean the sway bar is activated sooner and faster than it will be with rubber. Less deflection has to occur before the sway bar starts working.
At the mounts, it's right back to how rubber and poly do not work the same way. The rubber bushing at the mount is compressed between the sway bar and the mount. It doesn't spin or slide, so, when the sway bar twists the rubber has to flex, that's where the rotation occurs- within the rubber bushing itself (vs between the surface of the bar and the bushing). But that soft material also allows the sway bar to deflect as it twists, so you lose efficiency.
The poly bushing is much harder than rubber, and the sway bar rotates against the poly bushing. So there is friction there, so they get lubricated. As long as the poly is properly lubricated, the sway bar will twist smoothly in the bushing. And sway bar bushings are easy to access so adding grease is piece of cake. And because the poly is so much harder, it will not deflect like the rubber bushing either. As long as the poly bushing fits well and stays lubricated it will be more consistent and accurate than the rubber bushings can be.
Of course, if you don't understand that poly bushings require proper installation (you have to check to make sure they fit properly) and that the require maintenance (they need to be lubricated because they don't flex) then all of your poly bushings will squeak, and wear, and fail. Just like OMM says has happened to every one he's ever installed.
If your poly bushings are squeaking, you're doing it wrong.
Does every car need poly bushings? Of course not. If you're not going to do any kind of performance driving then the extra deflection from the rubber won't be a big deal. And if you're just going to cruise around rubber sway bar bushings won't hurt anything, the sway bar will just be slower to react and less effective. But if you're just cruising around you're probably not putting the sway bar to work much anyway. And if you don't want to periodically lubricate your bushings, well, use rubber.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
I thought it was funny last time I read all the back and forths...lol.
I read your post...you making very a definitive statement about rubber in a sway bar.
Don't get me wrong ..I like and prefer the polyurethane stuff...hell..energy suspension used MY ACTUALLY CAR to base their transmission mount design on, the one with the welded link inside over here in San Clemente back in 2004 or so... but it's not a must and about every car that comes off the factory assembly line uses rubber and that's for a quieter and cozier ride..while the adding of the component is still functioning in a way to provide better handling, even if it's not f1 at 100% of its ability.
I don't disagree that if it's all about handling..to use poly all the way. I agree...
I just wouldnt say it like the rubber is failing to provide the added stability the bar offers...more like a compromise in the added handling for less road noise...and faster front end lift at the track...but you're not talking about that at all, not a word.
If you ever take your car to the track and don't want to remove the sway bar/links... use rubber sway bar bushings. It will lift faster than with polyurethane.
I read your post...you making very a definitive statement about rubber in a sway bar.
Don't get me wrong ..I like and prefer the polyurethane stuff...hell..energy suspension used MY ACTUALLY CAR to base their transmission mount design on, the one with the welded link inside over here in San Clemente back in 2004 or so... but it's not a must and about every car that comes off the factory assembly line uses rubber and that's for a quieter and cozier ride..while the adding of the component is still functioning in a way to provide better handling, even if it's not f1 at 100% of its ability.
I don't disagree that if it's all about handling..to use poly all the way. I agree...
I just wouldnt say it like the rubber is failing to provide the added stability the bar offers...more like a compromise in the added handling for less road noise...and faster front end lift at the track...but you're not talking about that at all, not a word.
If you ever take your car to the track and don't want to remove the sway bar/links... use rubber sway bar bushings. It will lift faster than with polyurethane.
Some people don't like how urethane transmits extra road vibration.....and it does.
Every car comes out of the factory with rubber because it's 1. Cheaper and 2. requires no maintenance, because the average owner can't do it and the factory doesn't want to pay for it.
I drive my car on the street, the "road noise" comment is BS. I've put over 500 miles on my Duster in just the last couple of weeks, it has Delrin bushings at the control arms and poly everywhere else. Seriously, if "road noise" was some giant problem I would know, I'm the one running 1.12" torsion bars and 16:1 manual steering on the street in a car I commute with.
As far as "lift" at the track, I'm not debating drag race usage. I don't do it, and I don't care. There are plenty of debates about sway bars on drag cars, I don't give a rip either way. The faster a car is on the drag strip the worse it is on the street.
Like I said, BS. Just an excuse from people that don't actually drive cars with poly or delrin bushings. Or maybe they run cheap *** shocks, I dunno. If you set up the suspension properly for those components it's not a problem.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
It's true the main transmitter is the lower control arm... but I don't like changing the rubber bushing, be age or oil leaks...they do wear and go bad long before polyurethane..but after putting them in.. the tires got louder, so to speak. Taller tires help, with or without poly they help with noise...just not handling.lol
I've known people whose opinion was urethane transmits too much road vibration. That's their opinion, with which you cannot disagree, since it's an opinion. you can however disagree that they transmit too much road vibration for you. And that's fine.
Very true. Urethane is seemingly forever in comparison. That in and of itself is reason enough for me to ignore any possible felt road vibration.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
Rubber requires replacement long before polyurethane, not just because of load memory/distortion and loss of function over time..but also because it deteriorates under the elements and road splash/oil leak contamination.
Polyurethane will more than likely last longer than the car, if not in direct sunlight..which they aren't 'with the exceptions of lifted skykacker trucks'.
Choose for your own reasons and let the facts speak to educate those choices.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
Mine have been in since 2003...they still squeak a hair.lol
I have rubber in the uppers, had poly..but changed uppers and didnt want to wait on the mail. I have an upper set now that have been on the wall for 15 yrs. Have a new style poly trans mount to I'm putting in.
I have QA1 upper control arms I'm going to put on mine soon and they have urethane bushings. I plan on using Peter Bregman's delrin LCA bushings and pins for the lowers. I'm also not going to run a low profile tire, so that will help absorb any extra road vibration while handling nicely.
First off, I can disagree with anyone's opinion, just like they can disagree with mine. Second, while anyone can have their own opinion, if they hold an opinion that conflicts with the facts they're just WRONG. Sure, that person can keep their opinion, but there's nothing that says that I can't criticize them for holding an opinion that flies in the face of reality. Saying "that's my opinion" is not a get out of jail free card to believe whatever backward belief you want. If someone says "the earth is flat, that's my opinion" that's still wrong, and quite frankly every time that person expresses that opinion they should be criticized, because it's of course 100% bullshit and can easily be shown to be. They can still choose to have that opinion, but it's not a free pass.
If someone runs poly or Delrin bushings without building the rest of their suspension to match, they probably won't like the results. But, there are ways to build up your suspension so that "road noise" and vibration are not an issue. They're just blaming the bushings because it's easier to do that than go through and actually find the source of the vibration they don't like and upgrade the rest of their suspension to deal with it.
In this case, with sway bar bushings, there really shouldn't be ANY added vibration or road noise as long as everything fits properly, is tightened appropriately and is properly lubricated. Even with the poly or delrin control arm bushings, low profile tires and a chassis with additional stiffening running the proper shocks to dampen the new suspension outputs should be able to tame the unwanted "road noise" or "vibrations". It's physics, there is a solution.
If you insist. Did you drink another cup of difficult?
I mean I suppose I could just let it ride, but I just think it's kind of ironic that you're telling me I can't disagree with someone's opinion, when clearly you disagree with mine. Disagreeing with opinions is perfectly fine, disagreeing with facts is a different story.
It's fine, rubber and poly bushings are going to transmit different vibrations and frequencies, that's a materials property. But if you run the right shocks, well, that's their job to dampen that out. Like I said, physics. Match the shocks to your suspension components, it's a system. Mismatch your parts and the result is less than desirable, but that doesn't mean it can't be solved.
I was pokin you with the stick....it was a joke.
That's what they say about all humor.....Mr Serious. lolBut hey, there's some truth there too right?
i run poly bushings , road noise is not a problem . Car feels better with the poly bushings . try them worse that can happen is you won't like them .only poly I had problems with were the shumacher motor mounts the poly came apart after 5 years , plus they did increase vibration now use some mancinni bolt through the rubber mounts less vibration and have yet to break , only 3 years . that is just my opinion and it stinks no doubt
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