Screwup after screwup... what to do?

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alan627b said:
I always used to think the real way to fix the ground dragging problem was to weld a set of caster wheels to the bottom of the K frame! Preferably "borrowed" off a large dumpster....
Once a long time ago (1983-84), I bought a set of used headers from a guy's trunk.. he'd had them on his 70 Duster. I took them home and took the steering apart on my 72 318 Duster and put them on.. and put the steering back together. Imagine my surprise when the steering didn't go through them!

And... you would have had to drag the frame rails on the ground to smash them. I have no idea what brand they were.. they had 1 5/8 tubes, and 2.5 inch collectors.. only bad thing about them. The other feature that was wierd about them was that they had a slip fit tube on the passenger side where they really didn't need help... makes me wonder if these weren't Casler's or one of the other defunct brands.




Now it just so happens that 20 years later a buddy gave me another set of these 2.5 inch collector headers.. with that same wierd right side tube.. and they are hanging on my garage wall. I think they are the same things. I'll venture out into the icebox and take some pics for you guys tomorrow.

These things were a vast improvement over the stock 318 manifolds.. using my street racing dyno of the time.. I picked up 3 car lengths worth of power over the stock manifolds and single exhaust the car came with.
The muffler shop put 2.5 inch pipes (maybe 2 1/4) with Firebird application resonators instead of mufflers.. loud as hell but it sure made power!

My buddy with the 78 Camaro LT.. that already had a bigger engine, a shift kit and several other "advantages" was pissed when I could stay even with him.. he no longer enjoyed the 3 length advantage! So he had to go get headers too.. and then I beat him by 2! Hello lean mixture... a shelled engine soon followed.. but I digress.


If it turned out these are the same things I used to have, maybe they could be used as a master. Not as good as set of TTI's or Dougs, but I bet they could be made for a lot less... and improved with a set of 3" collectors too..

Stay tuned.

Alan
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Those were probably STAHL headers.....
 
dustoff440 said:
You've come this far...work it out. Unless you have a thumping 360 your horsepower gain will be ABOUT 20 horsepower with a set of headers. Not to mention the low hanging tube that many a body guys ding or crush. It is such a problem that Summit now offers a drivers side only new header. Are you prepared to raise your torsion bars which will change the stance of your car to provide clearance? To minimize crunching the tube you could install a "skid plate".....
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I already ordered the headers, they should get here tomorrow. I think my 360 will make good use of them; it's a 1975 LA block with factory iron 5.9 Magnum heads, KB-107 slugs for 10.5:1 static comp, Lunati Voodoo 60401 cam for 8.72:1 dynamic comp, RPM Air-Gap intake, and Carter AFB 625 cfm carb. I also plan to eventually add a bigger cam, carb, and maybe ported Edelbrock heads so I think getting headers now will be worth it. Actually if I had known about these Hedman Tight Tubes before I would've skipped trying to use manifolds altogether.
 
Dustoff.. concerning Stahl headers... I had forgotten about those. I wonder if the set I had/have would have originally been made for an earlier A chassis, thus the slip fit tube on the side they didn't need in the later chassis like mine? I'll brave the cold in a bit and get some pics to put up.
Alan
 
alan627b said:
Dustoff.. concerning Stahl headers... I had forgotten about those. I wonder if the set I had/have would have originally been made for an earlier A chassis, thus the slip fit tube on the side they didn't need in the later chassis like mine? I'll brave the cold in a bit and get some pics to put up.
Alan
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j:happy1: waiting:prayer: stahl has a habbit of beeing very nicely built!
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
I already ordered the headers, they should get here tomorrow. I think my 360 will make good use of them; it's a 1975 LA block with factory iron 5.9 Magnum heads, KB-107 slugs for 10.5:1 static comp, Lunati Voodoo 60401 cam for 8.72:1 dynamic comp, RPM Air-Gap intake, and Carter AFB 625 cfm carb. I also plan to eventually add a bigger cam, carb, and maybe ported Edelbrock heads so I think getting headers now will be worth it. Actually if I had known about these Hedman Tight Tubes before I would've skipped trying to use manifolds altogether.
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i think you will like it most end up putting headers on there cars sooner or later anyway,just be patient and read up alitle on how to install them and they will get in there alot easier.
 
So I got the 'hedders' a couple weeks ago and installed them myself, then had a local exhaust guy at the auto shop in town fabricate the downpipes. Problem is I didn't specify that I wanted him to use larger collectors/reducers than what came with the hedders; he went ahead and put those tiny reducers (I think 1 7/8"...?!?!) on there and welded them to 2.5" pipe the rest of the way down to the exhaust. I'm wondering, how much power will I be giving up compared to running 2.5" reducers which is the size of the header outlets? My engine specs are in one of my previous posts in this thread...
 
I am confused about the reducer thing. Usually the end of the header is 3 inch and it reduces down to 2.5. I dont understand how he has a 1 7/8 reducer welded to a 2.5 inch exhaust. Can you explain a little better or maybe post a pic?
 
Dragonbat13 said:
I am confused about the reducer thing. Usually the end of the header is 3 inch and it reduces down to 2.5. I dont understand how he has a 1 7/8 reducer welded to a 2.5 inch exhaust. Can you explain a little better or maybe post a pic?
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The end of these headers is 2.5", and they come with reducers that bolt on which are 1 7/8", maybe 2" but can't be any bigger than that. So it goes from 2.5" opening at the header outlet to ~2" reducers to 2.5" pipe the rest of the way back. I'm not sure how it worked either with that big of a difference in pipe size but he definitely was able to weld it up and make it fit. I didn't take any pics because my phone camera sucks indoors, and the car is an hour away in another town. I'll see if I can get some pics this weekend.
 
When you reduce a pipe, the flow restriction depends on the shape of the reduction. If it is a smooth, curved reduction and expansion, there is little net pressure drop. This is purposely done to make flowmeters termed "venturis". Most important is the re-expansion downstream of the throat. If smooth, so no "flow separation", the energy recovery can be 90%, so minimal net pressure drop for a small reduction. Look at the exhaust on a 2 stroke dirt bike for ideas. Worst case is a sharp orifice, like a washer with a center hole. There is total flow separation on the downstream side and almost all of the accelerated flow in the constriction is wasted as heat. The same principles apply to getting air into and out of the ports in the head.
 
dodge freak said:
It hurt but not enough to scream about. I would not go back there, imo

Some places are jerks, find a different shop next time
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Honestly overall I have mixed feelings towards this shop, most of the guys who work there are cool but as a business it's kind of a crapshoot. Given the circumstances I think he did the best job he could. Definitely not as nice as jerry6's ride but then again he had the option of getting it done by a specialty performance exhaust shop. I just need to get this thing driving so I can bring it to my home an hour away from the small town it's in.

As far as I can remember the pass.-side looked not-so-great with a sharp bend right off the reducer toward the side of the block/oil pan so as to squeeze between the inside of the K-frame and steering linkage. He had to put some dents in the pipe to clear the oil pan too. Driver-side wasn't as bad but then again thinking about what BillGrissom said I feel like the transition from reducer to exhaust pipe was pretty sharp. Again I'll just have to get pics for you guys but I have the feeling some are going to tell me it was done poorly... :sad11: lol
 
Does it run and get you to school?

If so, does it really matter right now?
 
The best way I found is spray weld. I had a maifold that was in two pieces welded this way and never had a problem. Always spray weld Cast Iron.
 
moper said:
Does it run and get you to school?

If so, does it really matter right now?
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No not yet I intend to start the new engine for the first time this weekend. There's a performance exhaust shop within walking distance from my apartment in Denver so I'll just take it there sometime and see what they say. I have another car ('93 Jeep Cherokee) that I use as a daily driver so it's not crucial I get the Duster running ASAP, it's just been sitting at a shop down in Monument where I've been working on it for almost a month and I want to get it done to be courteous to the owner who let me keep it there for free.

Good tip on the spray weld Oldmanmopar, a little too late though I already installed headers and got the exhaust welded up. I may keep the manifolds and use them for something else though, probably won't be worth it to try to sell them.
 
Ah. Gotcha. Any shop can do what you want. In fact, when they look at it, they will just sympathize. If it costs more than $50 complain.
Even a plain shop with a mig welder can replace that section with a straight section with a 2.5" ID slip flange. I could do it on my back in the dirt in under 30 minutes.
 
Alright good to know moper, thanks. I'm so close to getting this thing running I can almost hear it! I can't wait!!
 
So here are some pics of the exhaust job from my crappy camera phone, car was on the ground too so tough to get a good shot from underneath. As you can see not very pretty to look at, I doubt the flow will be very good esp. on the right (pass.) side.

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Can the car turn right? Seems to me that the idler arm with hit the pipe. That pipe should have run back (severe angle right off the flange) and then down BEHIND the steering linkage, but in front of the oil filter....
 
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