Self Defense Shotguns

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tyler_s18 said:
whoa someone should pm me what the dragons breath round is lol. and how illegial it is
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It will ruin your shotgun and can't be used in a semi-auto. It's a zirconium based round (in most instances) that produces a pyrotechnic display similar to a flare gun or short-ranged flamethrower. As a home-defense round???? You might stop a robber, but you'll burn your house down in the process too.

If you're serious about buying some, check google for legality issues in your state. Some states have not outlawed them.
 
ok lol. i found a video of it and it looks fun lol. what will it do to my shotgun? i have a mossburg 500 i think. its not semi auto
 
tyler_s18 said:
ok lol. i found a video of it and it looks fun lol. what will it do to my shotgun? i have a mossburg 500 i think. its not semi auto
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The burning zirconium will score, pit, and bond to your shotgun bore, basically it won't be smooth anymore. You know, a can of hair-spray and a zippo is almost as impressive.
 
jeryst said:
Is the Judge to big to conceal easily? It fires 45 colt.

Just wondering if the Judge would be a good "all around" pistol. 410 for snakes, carjackers, etc. while 45 Colt for larger animals. Maybe too big to just put in your pocket?
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Yeah, it's way too big for a pocket. That's probably why it's being touted as a car defense weapon. BTW, a firearm should never be put in a pocket without a "pocket holster" that shields the trigger.

BigWhip said:
For my home gun I have a 12 ga Browning a5 (humpback) 5 shots, 8, 8, 4, 4, 4. The barrel is cut to 20" the stock has been shortened by 8".
Stored loaded with the breech open. Push a button and the gun is ready to go.
I keep the gun on a shelf that is ABOVE my bedroom door.
The shelf has a lip on the front and the firearm is not visible.
Easy to reach. Safe from prying eyes.

Whip
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I know those A5's and I know what you mean by "ready at the touch of a button" too. :-D

bkbond12 said:
Sadly enough, shooting to kill is sound advice. The whole "dead men tell no tales" leaves only your accounting.

We were instructed that leg shots were Hollywood, go for the center of mass for both protection from the offender as well as for legal issues.

As to the whole pistol or shotgun for home defense debate. Unless you practice with a pistol on a semi-weekly basis, it will do you little good in an actual self-defense situation. Ramcharger, you and probably only a handful of others on this site actually practice on a regular basis. This might make a pistol an effective weapon for you, but the avg. joe-blow should stick with a shotgun.

You have a point there. Under stress, shot placement degrades by 50% according to my instructors. We were told to practice drawing every day with an UNLOADED firearm to build muscle memory and to minimize having to think. It should be an automatic reaction when needed.

In response to penetration power, higher caliber pistols have more penetrating power than a 2 3/4 shotty shell loaded with whatever gameload (not slug, load) you desire.
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Agreed and that should be a consideration in regards to house construction, proximity of neighbors, family and pet location, etc. We were also told to use hollow points to minimize penetration and to transfer shock. In regards to legality, handloads and rounds like that dragons breath would be frowned upon by a jury.....something to think about. I'm sure the prosecutor or lawyer would play that video at trial and make it look like we were the bad guys. Plus, it would burn your house down, lol.
 
The Mossberg 500/590 is a fine piece of hardware, but I tend toward the Remington 870 as a favorite. The biggest argument in favor of the Mossberg is the location of the safety. It allegedly requires less fine motor skill to operate, which seems reasonable. In any case, it comes down to being familiar with the tools well before they're needed. Fine motor skills fall off quite a bit under duress and muscle memory needs to be there to take over.

In a household environment, I leave the safety off and the chamber empty. The only thing I keep with a live chamber is my 1911. The operation of wiping the thumb safety at the very end of the draw stroke is very much ingrained. Of course, the pistol serves to get me safely to the long arms. :wink:
 
Dragon's Breath!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCYFg-gYUk"]YouTube- Dragon's Breath[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B81l9C7gmM0&NR=1"]YouTube- Another Dragon's Breath Video Clip[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ7ByHkoDFA&feature=related"]YouTube- Fun with Dragonsbreath 2[/ame]

Not real useful for home defense! Real useful for home inflame!
 
doktor_x said:
The Mossberg 500/590 is a fine piece of hardware, but I tend toward the Remington 870 as a favorite. The biggest argument in favor of the Mossberg is the location of the safety. It allegedly requires less fine motor skill to operate, which seems reasonable. In any case, it comes down to being familiar with the tools well before they're needed. Fine motor skills fall off quite a bit under duress and muscle memory needs to be there to take over.

In a household environment, I leave the safety off and the chamber empty. The only thing I keep with a live chamber is my 1911. The operation of wiping the thumb safety at the very end of the draw stroke is very much ingrained. Of course, the pistol serves to get me safely to the long arms. :wink:
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Thanks for the info Dok. Interesting tactic that I hadn't thought of either. 8) I suppose it really comes down to practice and familiarity with any given firearm.

mopar340dave said:
Dragon's Breath!


Not real useful for home defense! Real useful for home inflame!
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Yikes! I can imagine how easy it would be to start a forest fire with that round.
 
Great stuff here guys.

I prefer shotguns over handguns for home defense for the following reasons:

1) Handguns are more difficult to use effectively in stressful situations.

2) #9 shot will turn an intruder into shredded-meat at point blank range but will not penetrate two layers of sheetrock. Most any handgun slug will.

3) I leave my Mossberg with 4 in the tube and an empty chamber, the very sound of racking that first round in will turn even a crack-head's blood to ice water. A fight avoided is a fight won.

4) Even empty a shotgun can be a very effective weapon at close range if needed.

I'd like to add something else: when choose a 'house gun', it is a good idea to picture a prosecutor holding it up for the jury in your homicide trial. Sorry guys but the fact is that in even the most obvious 'good shoot' you could still be arrested, charged with homicide and spend 3-5 years and up to $20k defending yourself. This being the case, make sure you know the law and you can demonstrate that you exhausted every possible alternative before resorting to deadly force.
If my pump is held up for a jury most anyone might say "well that looks like my granddad's old goose gun". Stay away from anything with a "military" or "exotic" look to it. The only accessory most folks could ever need is a flashlight which can actually be used to demonstrate caution and due diligence on the part of the defendant (that's you, spanky).
Lastly, no matter what happens, don’t use a priceless, irreplaceable exotic because you can bet no matter what the cops, prosecutor or jury say, you will never see it ever again.

My two cents on the topic -Ly


P.S. It is still more important to use what you are comfortable with than what is "correct". Even Col Jeff Cooper said "It is better to hit with a .22 than to miss with a .45".
 
I'm glad you brought that up Yankee. YOU will be the bad guy until the Prosecuting Attorney decides other wise. And don't think just because you you weren't prosecuted for manslaughter that you're in the free and clear. There's still the inevitable civil trial, where the perp's mother will get on the stand and cry and say how much he loved her and that he was a good boy before the drugs got a hold of him.

My CCP instructor told us it costs an average of $60k to defend yourself in a civil trial, even if you were justified in shooting an intruder. Something to think about.

BTW, I still carry and have a loaded Mossberg 500 in the closet. Attorney is on retainer.
 
BrianT said:
I'm glad you brought that up Yankee. YOU will be the bad guy until the Prosecuting Attorney decides other wise. And don't think just because you you weren't prosecuted for manslaughter that you're in the free and clear. There's still the inevitable civil trial, where the perp's mother will get on the stand and cry and say how much he loved her and that he was a good boy before the drugs got a hold of him.

My CCP instructor told us it costs an average of $60k to defend yourself in a civil trial, even if you were justified in shooting an intruder. Something to think about.

BTW, I still carry and have a loaded Mossberg 500 in the closet. Attorney is on retainer.
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Three S's can avoid a trial......


Shoot, Shovel, Shut-up.

I know I have an umbrella style home owner's insurance policy for liability, but I'm not sure if they'd still cover me if I was directly responsible for the injury(ies).
 
I always wondered what if you caught someone breaking in your house and just kept them locked in the basement for a month or two? :-D

Think of the fun.
 
BigWhip said:
I always wondered what if you caught someone breaking in your house and just kept them locked in the basement for a month or two? :-D

Think of the fun.
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I guess then you would be arrested for kidnapping, imprisonment, etc. THe laws are not on the side of the victim any more.

I read a story a couple of years back, where a guy broke into someones home though the garage, while the family was on vacation. The door locked behind him, and he couldnt gain entrance to the house, or leave either. Instead of trying to break the door, the idiot just sat in the garage for a couple of days, drinking a case of soda, until the family came home. He sued them, AND WON, because the family violated some building code that requires you to be able to get out of a locked structure. The family was basically fined for being negligent, and the guy won a lot of money for pain and suffering. Todays courts are wonderful!
 
mopar340dave said:
what state? and did it hold up?
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I cant remember the state. It was an article about unbelievable lawsuits that I was reading one time. And the crook actually won the case and got money, even after he admitted that he had broken in to the place with the intent to commit burglary.
 
Well darn

I was wanting to put hot wax on their head, color them lime green, put their feet in concrete shoes, then push them nude out on a public street. Like in front of the local TV news station.:wav: Nothing to harm them just wanting to bring attention to them and their choices in life.

Whip
 
I found out the hard way that when someone is trying to break in thru the back door and you have 911 on the phone while trying to put a 30 round clip in a fully tached out military assult rifle that a more user friendly indoors type gun is best suited to deal with a real life situation. One of the Swat Team members on scene suggested one of these (Winchester #1300 pistol grip) which I keep loaded with slug slug .00 .00 .000 .000
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachment.php?attachmentid=148713&stc=1&d=1272871064

winchester%25201300.jpg
 
the67fish said:
I found out the hard way that when someone is trying to break in thru the back door and you have 911 on the phone while trying to put a 30 round clip in a fully tached out military assult rifle that a more user friendly indoors type gun is best suited to deal with a real life situation. One of the Swat Team members on scene suggested one of these (Winchester #1300 pistol grip) which I keep loaded with slug slug .00 .00 .000 .000
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachment.php?attachmentid=148713&stc=1&d=1272871064
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So, what happened? I want the rest of this story.
 
I have a judge for home and car defence, it's not big and bulky like a shotgun and with the 410 ammo there is no need for extreme accuracy. The judge is to big for ccw but does fit well into the wifes purse , and she doesn't mind carrying it. My instructor said almost all situations will be within a few feet , in my opinion that is to close for a shotgun , he also said to go for the maximum bleed in the quickest time , I like the idea of alot of little holes instead of one big hole. Mine is loaded with two 410 shells followed with three 45 rounds , and a crimson trace laser grip just in case I want to put a hole in a certain area. If you are uninvited at my home I have no intention of you leaving alive , lawyers have to eat too.
 
that's y i love Florida we have a law called castle law if you come in my yard and try to brake in my house or steal anything i can blow you away.lol
 
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