Signs of rust in Engine any Ideas

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73dart360

73dart360

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Last year i had a brand nw engine 408 11.1 compression 98 percent track car ,I was driving it and starting it regularly , the weather got bad so the car sat a few weeks i had a bad ground , so the engine wouldnt turn over enough to get it started , i tried starting it couple days, charged it all night same thing , i did pump the gas trying to get it to fire ,finally it seized and would not turn over i took it back to the machine shop they unfroze the engine , after that i did a leakdown test the first 2 cylinders were not good losing 65 percent and 38 percent, so the car sat 7 months finally the machine shop was ready to look at it, they ripped it apart and found rust on valves, valve seats ,under head of valves,top of pistons,in the exhaust my TTI headers were brand new inside is alot of rust now,The heads definately were not leaking the cooling system is tight , I used cometic head gaskets,The rings did go bad, Maybe gas went through rings and dried cylinders, washout,, I do live in a high Humidity area , South Florida the car is outside but off the ground on a trailer under a carport and covered with a cloth car cover so it stays very dry, I was running 113 race gas in the car, I called VP raceing fuel , they said the gas did not draw condensation because there is no Ethanol in race gas They also said it leaves no residual in the cylinders but would this cause that much rust? ,HAS ANYONE EVER HAD ANYTHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN. Engine was just redone and i dont want to go through this again Any suggestions.
 
Maybe bad intake gasket? Water port leaked into 1-2-7 or 8? Kinda weird for a warmer climate, but humid.
 
The moisture comes out of the ground and gets trapped under the car and/or tarp.

Ever see farmers that cover the cultivated rows with plastic to keep the plants in moisture? Place some plastic on the ground overnight and in the morning turn it over and see how wet it is.

Never park for more than a week on grass or dirt without putting down at least a tarp.

And as moparhead stated, get a breathable car cover.
 
Maybe I stated it wrong It is a carport with the tarp being the roof it is nowhere near touchoing the car, I also have a loose cloth car cover on car , the car sits under the carport on a U Haul Trailer so its 2-1/2 ft off the ground and its a concrete paver driveway.
 
It sounds like you had a water leak from the intake or heads for the engine to get stuck from sitting?I had my 408 done around the same time you had yours done.I ran mine right up to October/2010(70 passes),then yanked it out and has been on a dolly in my garage all winter.(Cold Canadian winter).No condensation in my engine.Whats your engine builder saying?Is he gonna redo the engine?Somethings not right,for it to get stuck?Good luck.
 
yes he redid the engine but found no leaks where water would have gotten in, Is it possible because i was trying to start it with no avail for a few days that the gas washed out the cylinders ? made it freeze up .
 
if the intake was leaking water near the corners...you should see rust on pushrods...and any other bare steel in the valley...plus water in the oil

if it is just in the valves and seats....gotta come from either carb..or up thru exhaust..

need time you park if for awhile...back off the rockers and let the close off the cylinders..
 
South Florida. Surrounded by salt water on 3 sides. I have no clue what it could be.
 
Two other possibilities. Cometic gaskets require a specific machining finish to seal properly. Was the right finish performed? You mentioned the cooling system was tight. How did you confirm this? A visual inspection will not eliminate the possibility of an internal leak due to sealing or cracks. While the engine was built was it properly checked for cracks in the heads and block? The best check you can do now is to pressure check the cooling system. Did you have any signs of water in the oil? It usually shows as a milky white residue In the oil and is easy to see under the valve covers. What did the machinist tell you they checked the second time around to be sure the water will stay out?
 
Your rust came from one of two places. Up through the headers if they were opened up. or condesation or water left in the mufflers, or down the intake through that open scoop from the wind and the rain. If you going to let-em sit you should cover the engine . You wouldnt believe how much water goes down the wing nut when it sits in the air cleaner dish. And also plug the exhaust condensation will go up the headers and stick-em fast. Seen both ways rust-um. Our super charged omni hydraulically lock from ten minutes in the rain. we now seal the flange and the wingnut with sealer.
 
I live in Florida and have had many motors sit long periods of time, never had a problem like that. I would say it was some kind of leak in the motor maybe cracked block or head leaking into cylinder so didn't show in the the oil. Is the motor sleeved could have a problem there but I would be more suspect of the gaskets the can leak slightly when cold usually not an issue if its just a second or two and then seal with tempiture but if you couldn't get the engine started and it had seeped a little water in to cylinder then sat for 7 months well theres your problem wouldn't show since it's a small bit of moister moving thru the gasket. Those gaskets take a special technique to get to seal. Sorry but that's my best guess.
 
Originally i used Royal purple for first start up , there is no breaking in for this flat tappet cam due to SM cermic lifters , you just use a good oil , The car has a twin snorkel scoop and a full 3 " exhaust , The car has never seen rain , or water , There was no water in the oil , There was gas in the oil pump when he tore it apart . The car is always under cover from day 1, last year when it was sitting we did get alot of rain previously to me having this problem , maybe it is possible water somehow got into the the carb , but you would think youd see the water in the oil.
 
The engine is completed and back together today was the first start up, i will stuff the exhaust when sitting and put a blanket over the engine then put the cover over the car Hopefully i wont have this problem again.
 
I would pour some marvel mystery oil down the carb when running and when it starts to smoke turn it off.
Make sure you pour it down each barrel of the carb so every cylinder gets oiled.
You could also use engine fogging fluid.

I think it was from the humid air and lack of use.
 
NEVER EVER HEARD OF RUSTING VALVES AND RUSTING CYLINDERS ON AN ASSEMBLED running ENGINE just sitting for a few weeks!!!! Gas in the oil pump or oil is WAY WAY NOT GOOD!!! need some serious investigation there.
I live around Detroit, Michigan IN the KNOWN "RUST BELT" I do not FOG my engine, I do not do much of anything to "winterize it" past normal anti Freeze and adding some Stabil to the fuel and it sits for a solid 4 months at a time in unheated storage with two breathable covers on it, (top one is for birdshit), that's IT! not much different from being outside save the accumulation of snow.... have pulled my valve covers regular to replace the gaskets NEVER SAW even a granual of rust ANYWHERE inside the engine......
YOU have a serious leaking issue in both your fuel system AND your cooling system.... condensation will NOT seize a motor in a few weeks unless your parts are not coated with oil.... last month we pulled a t bird out of a garage that had been sitting for 32 years with NO exhaust past the manifolds and no air cleaner! INSIDE of 35 mins it was running, burning off the old trapped gas made it stink but it ran and it ran smooth.....and it sat IN MICHIGAN ( the rust belt) for 32 years!!!!
Water is not crawling up your tail pipe unless you stuck a hose up there! and water is not going down the throat of your carb unless you stuck a hose in there too!! YOU had a faulty build that leaked coolant and fuel and your builder is "givin you the business" tellin you all these fairy tails..... HE screwed up!!!! if an engine is built right and sealed right and the systems are working as they should, your engine internals should have had a coating of oil on them making it quite unlikely that they would rust within a few YEARS much less a few weeks.....condensation forms on everything but if your parts were oil coated as they should be, condensation will have no affect and will likely evap off when it gets up to op temp!!!
WHen you get it back check everything DAILY( for a while) check the coolant levels check the oil level make certain you have proper oil pressure and proper pressure in the cooling system.... smell your oil it should smell like OIL...if it smells like gas YOU have a leak and it is likely either in the fuel pump ( if mechanical ) or from the carb a known Holley issue.... hopefully for you your builder got it right this time
 
Just a question do you have kids, this happened to me before my business partners son about 7 at the time decided to help us clean a customers GSXR750 he stuck the water hose up the exhaust and filled the engine slap full of water, when we asked him why he did it just said he was cleaning the inside of the pipe cause it looked dirty. We got lucky and caught it cause someone saw him pulling the hose out of the pipe no damage but still cost us alot of money to tear down and inspect and replace all the gaskets. So sometimes Sh.....T happens and you don't even know.
 
I have a 340 that sat in car, rag on carb, open headers, for 20 years; fired up after 20 years, no rust. Fuel pump bad on yours, condensation does't act like that. Build problem, especially with the intake (been there).
 
My kids ar 17 @ 20 I dont even think they know i have a car LOL (Green1) can you explain more about Intake? Im assuming my fuel pump is fine its electric Aerospace 350 GPH It sure is loud
 
73dart360 said:
My kids ar 17 @ 20 I dont even think they know i have a car LOL (Green1) can you explain more about Intake? Im assuming my fuel pump is fine its electric Aerospace 350 GPH It sure is loud
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Mine are 17 and 25 and your right they don't even have a clue, but im at least trying with the 17 yr old took him to the street racing race at sunshine raceway last week and he had some fun, so maybe i might let him drive the Cuda to 1st day of school next year his senior year. Hemi Cuda should at least get some looks for him but who knows with kids these days probably only a couple kids in the school will even no what it is, they just think its an old piece of junk.
 
id bet driving that hemi cuda to school would get a lot of thumbs up from the older crowd on the way to school LOL
 
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