Slant 6 Turbo 68Dart Project

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I initially wanted the reg here sunday, but some reason now it's wednesday. MORE RIDES TO WORK! YAYA! lol. I've learned a valuable lesson, just because you buy a really good looking reg, does not mean it will work for a carbureted motor....
 
[QUOTE
Bill, you wouldn't happen to know which way the dizzy is turned to retard timing? [/QUOTE]

Look at the orientation of the vacuum diaphragm, RE:the direction it pulls when it "sees" vacuum. If it pulls the "breaker plate" in a clockwise direction, the direction of distributor rotation is counter-clockwise. It would advance the timing to pull the breaker plate in the opposite direction from that shaft rotation.

It has been so long since I have played with the timing on mine, frankly, I can't remember; maybe someone else can tell us, but if you look at it in the manner stated above, you'll never have to ask again...

Good luck. The symptoms you described sound JUST like an engine with waaay too much advance to start... The stopping of the crank like it does, is indicative of seriously advanced spark... regardless of mixture problems. Look closely at that, please.
 
Bill, I am inclined to believe you and will kick the distributor back several degrees and see what happens, but unfortunately with the onset of this new fuel problem, I can't even try and start it. It just wouldn't be safe. I have a new reg on the way, I'll hook it up, and try and bring the timing back. I'm wondering how I misadjusted the dizzy that poorly, since all my marks line up still. The old nylon gear was also still in perfect shape. I have a new one in a box if it ever acts up.

I actually did stay with the working dizzy I already had just to eliminate the possibility of msd failure for now.

Unfortunately now the car is on hold even though I was going real good, and had awesome momentum. I'll probably ease some cleanup of wiring tomorrow with my day off, install the other valve cover, and clean up my area, so all that should be left is distributor timing to mess with and fuel when it gets here.

The boost and afr gauges are done and lined up on the A-pillar. I'll work on installing the smaller tach tomorrow, and maybe oil pressure since nothing else will be happening.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
clockwise retards timing.
Click to expand...

Sorry, Junior: I didn't see your answer before I wrote that... My mistake.

As regards your timing, I am not comfortable with anything over 17 degrees undeer ant boost at all...

Blown head gaskets and other egregious problems can make expeimenting with more timing an activity you might regret... :eek:ops:
Think twice about this.

Just my 2-cents...
 
Serj22 said:
Bill, I am inclined to believe you and will kick the distributor back several degrees and see what happens.
Click to expand...

That is an easy "mistake" to make and just a few degrees can produce the kind of results you have encountered.

I could be wrong, and it might be all fuel-related, but I think it's worth a shot...:coffee2:

Do you have an inline pressure gauges permanently-mounted at the regulator, both before and after?? Having those can tell you exactly what the regulator is doing...

A nice thing to know...

Just sayin'...
 
Bill Dedman said:
That is an easy "mistake" to make and just a few degrees can produce the kind of results you have encountered. I could be wrong, and it might be all fuel-related, but I think it's worth a shot...:coffee2: Do you have an inline pressure gauges permanently-mounted at the regulator, both before and after?? Having those can tell you exactly what the regulator is doing... A nice thing to know... Just sayin'...
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I only have one dead center on the regulator. Further research showed that the regulator I bought is intended for electronic fuel injection and starts out at 40psi, and goes up to 160psi under boost (supposedly) but the pressure will not go lower. The gauge read in BAR rather than psi. 3 BAR was the lowest I could get it, which is a little over 40 I think.
 
At least the fuel pump works good...


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXak66S9FXY"]Wrong Fuel Regulator - YouTube[/ame]
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Serj22 said:
I only have one dead center on the regulator. Further research showed that the regulator I bought is intended for electronic fuel injection and starts out at 40psi, and goes up to 160psi under boost (supposedly) but the pressure will not go lower. The gauge read in BAR rather than psi. 3 BAR was the lowest I could get it, which is a little over 40 I think.
Click to expand...

Could you just hook the stock pump back up while you're waiting for the new pump, just to see if you can get it started? If you back the timing up a few degrees, it might start, if the plugs are not too wet from all that gas...

Just a thought.:glasses7:
 
Just a thought, I don't know if anyone mentioned this....

The way you describe your cranking almost seems like there might be a great deal of fuel in some of the cylinders causing a partial hydraulic. It might be worth your time to pull the plugs and spin it over, and perhaps drop the oil out of it. After pushing all that fuel through the carb vents this is a possibility.
 
d55dave said:
Just a thought, I don't know if anyone mentioned this.... The way you describe your cranking almost seems like there might be a great deal of fuel in some of the cylinders causing a partial hydraulic. It might be worth your time to pull the plugs and spin it over, and perhaps drop the oil out of it. After pushing all that fuel through the carb vents this is a possibility.
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Yes, I thought it was somehow locked due to liquid. I'll have to pull the plugs. I think a majority of the fuel made it down the intake pipe towards the intercooler though due to the vent tube. It also started cranking hard BEFORE I let remotely enough fuel into the bowl to start shooting gas.

Also Bill, I would have to climb under the car to remove the electric one, and drop it out of the way, and bridge the line with some soft fuel hose. While it seems not so bad, I only have a driveway and it was very difficult to get under there the last time with minimal jack height that I have. I'd rather maybe be patient about it. Likely what I'll do is pop the plugs out, unhook the fuel pump wire, and just try and start the car with no gas. If anything the motor should at least spin.
 
Well, I pulled all 6 plugs, and 1,2,3 were completely dry and still a nice tan color. 4 you could tell got a tiny bit wet. 5 was even less wet, and 6 was dry and tan. I expected the whole thing to smell like gas and it did not. I spun the motor several times by hand and nothing pooled out of the spark tubes like I was worried it would. I cranked the motor with the timing retarded as far as the mark would go, which in the past changed it between 0 and 14 degrees. SO I'm just hoping that set it back 7 since the distributor was bolted in the center of the bracket when it was installed.

I tried cranking the starter with no plugs, and no fuel going to it. It almost seems like the battery is just dead. Perhaps the symptoms are unrelated. Maybe the timing was causing a kickback while trying to start with a different battery, and now that it is "fixed" the battery can not crank the motor. Now it just acts like a dead battery where you get the machine gun fire sound after a bad crank. Before it just stopped. No sound.

I'm thinking a majority of the fuel pumped made its way down the intake pipe, because I drained a few cups out after undoing the clamp, and I'm hoping not much of it made its way into the cylinders. The vent tube was pointed down the pipe when installed luckily, rather than letting the fountain fall right into the intake.

Here's what's happening:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF_sCGzluq8&feature=youtu.be"]Turbo no crank issue - YouTube[/ame]
 
that video looks like a dead battery. most autoparts stores will charge them for free if you dont have a charger.

did you put a fuse in line when you wired the pump. just pull the fuse. if you didnt it might be a good idea. the bowl should have enough gas in it to start and run for a little while.
 
I haven't hardwired the pump at all, I just jumped it to the ign circuit to verify functionality before it's hardlined, so I merely took the jumper wire off - now the pump won't pump. In the end it will be routed through a fuse, but I like to make sure stuff works before I start drilling holes and routing wires permanently.

It'd be nice to get to an automotive store. Think I just got to wait till the neighbor gets home again and can jump it. No real other alternative.
 
Serj22 said:
I haven't hardwired the pump at all, I just jumped it to the ign circuit to verify functionality before it's hardlined, so I merely took the jumper wire off - now the pump won't pump. In the end it will be routed through a fuse, but I like to make sure stuff works before I start drilling holes and routing wires permanently.

It'd be nice to get to an automotive store. Think I just got to wait till the neighbor gets home again and can jump it. No real other alternative.
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Definitely a dead battery... That staccato/machine gun report from the starter relay is a dead giveaway... (no pun intended...):coffee2:
 
Walmart battery charger $50 and itll pay for itself in no time. Works as a power supply for removing rust too.
0002666607024_180X180.jpg
 
pishta said:
Walmart battery charger $50 and itll pay for itself in no time. Works as a power supply for removing rust too.
0002666607024_180X180.jpg
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That's not a bad deal. The battery charger at my shop is a giant box on wheels with some 80s knobs and dials on it. Not very convenient at all.

Well, hopefully when the regulator gets here, I'll just charge it and should be able to fire it up. The other thing that will be a bit annoying is the fuel fittings are all -6 now and I have to adapt them to -8 to fit into the new regulator. That's probably $10 a piece more...
 
Sitting at home playing on the computer. I made up two more decals that I'm having someone print out for me. The first will go on the "air cleaner" housing where the intake meets the carb on the carb hat, much like you would have seen. The other goes on the radiator frame where the old radiator warning decal went in front of the turbo housing.

Just fun "don't touch anything" stock looking decals. They're fairly small, so no one would likely read them, but if they do, then they don't look stock... lol.



 
Serj22 said:
Thanks. Just thinking along the lines of "don't touch anything" warnings. Anyone can steal if they want. Sizing should fit most cars where I described the fitment.
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Love the decals and your warped sense of humor....:happy1:
 
I think I read you used the lead after ign resistor to power the MSD. MSD needs full power to operate properly. Low voltage IE after resistor could make it missfire
When you get your battery fixed, set your ign timing with a timing light while cranking engine with fuel pump disconnected. When car fires your timing is already set. If you do not have a timing light you need to own one with a turbo car.
 
Jo Diesel said:
I think I read you used the lead after ign resistor to power the MSD. MSD needs full power to operate properly. Low voltage IE after resistor could make it missfire When you get your battery fixed, set your ign timing with a timing light while cranking engine with fuel pump disconnected. When car fires your timing is already set. If you do not have a timing light you need to own one with a turbo car.
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Definitely follow the advice on the resistor... That is good timing-setting advice IF you know exactly how much total spark advance your distributor will deliver once all the advance has been administered, but unless you are absolutely sure how much advance is built into the distributor's mechanical advance mechanism, you could end up with too much, or too little after the pins have hit their limit. A more sure-fire way to accomplish this, and one that will not put your engine at risk, is to attach the timing light, start the en gine and watch the spark advance on the damper/pulley, raising the rpm slowly, until it is obvious that the mechanism has reached its limit. Make a mark on the damper at 18 degrees and turn the distributor just until the timing light illuminates the timing with the 18-degree mark lit up. That will ensure that your engine will NEVER "see" more spark advance than that, while under boost, a CRITICAL parameter. First, though, you should determine that the TDC mark on your damper is accurately oriented; all of them are not. Buy a TDC indicator that screws into the sparkplug hole and has an adjustable-length probe that can be adusted to stop the piston near the end of its travel upward. Make a mark on the damper when the piston stops. Then. reverse the rotation 'til it stops again, make a mark on the damper, and split the difference. Now you have an ACCURATE TDC reference mark. It may, or may not match the factory mark, but it is one on which you can rely. Eighteen degreees is, of course, easy; measure the circumference of the damper/pulley, and take 1/20th of that figure and make a reference mark on the damper that distance from your just-established (proven) TDC mark, and you now have the timing mark you need. You will very likely, never encounter engine-damaging detonation due to ignition timing with that setup. Adjust for that setting, lock the distributor down and forget it! Vacuum advance HAS to be disconnected for this procedure, of course. Now, you has jazz.... :cheers: Compared to what you have already successfully faced during this build, this will be a piece of cake for you... Good luck!
 
Jo Diesel said:
I think I read you used the lead after ign resistor to power the MSD. MSD needs full power to operate properly. Low voltage IE after resistor could make it missfire When you get your battery fixed, set your ign timing with a timing light while cranking engine with fuel pump disconnected. When car fires your timing is already set. If you do not have a timing light you need to own one with a turbo car.
Click to expand...

I jumped the lead without the resistor and took the resistor out of the circuit. For now the MSD box is sitting dormant with nothing hooked up to it again to eliminate it as a factor. I'd rather make sure the system runs on its own before I go to any sophisticated control, so for right now, that's a modified dizzy with a pertronix controller and magnetic pickup, with a mofified governor and a volvo advance/retard pod.

I do have a timing light. it's an 80's Snap-On light where you can see what the exact timing line is comparitive to the mark and show where certain advance or retard marks are. It's real nice.
 
Well, got home from the shop at 5, then spent some time shopping around for some fittings for my new regulator that showed up. This one was -8 as opposed to the -6, so it had to be changed. I went to Pepboys first and 9/10ths of the fittings there are FAKE an fittings. They are NPT stuff painted blue and red... And I didn't know that, so it took forever to find the real stuff, but here it is, 10pm and I finally have all the stuff.

I left the battery on a trickle charger my dad lent me, and went to detach the extension cord just now, and just for giggles, tried to turn the motor over. The motor turned over effortlessly (with no spark plugs or anything in) so I think we are good to go tomorrow.

I think tomorrow is boost day.

My old boss used to say: "lord willing and the creek don't rise! heyheyheyhey he he he he"
So hopefully all is well.

Also tomorrow I'm going to hack up the stock exhaust, use the first 2 feet about, and then attach a cheap cherry bomb I had laying around to it, then a turndown - just so it's not so loud that I can't even stand driving it. Also my girlfriend picked me up some 1/8th inch steel from the store so I can reinforce the turbo to the block more. She's so great...
 
Plugs are back in, fuel regulator is not flooding out the vent tube, and the car is holding its gas. I found fuel everywhere in the intake piping so I disconnected all of it to drain it so I'm just trying to run the car N-a for now. I've got crank, I got sparks on the coil line if I get it near metal, and I'm assuming there's air. Somehow my timing must be WAAAAAY off, like I installed the distributor wrong, even though I marked it. It's odd. There's also only one way the rotor can mount, so I know its gotta be in the right spot. Maybe the battery is just dying again and I'll have to replace this battery now. The car does a slow, then sped up crank.

Vru... vruvur... vru....vruvru....vru....vruvru like a 1....23....1....23....1.....23 beat. Usually this thing spins over a lot faster than that. SO I put it back on the charger. Last night when I turned it over without plugs it just spun like a airplane rotor (well, not really, but fast).

Well, I got the motor to do one gas fired spin. Combustion happened, but still wasn't turning fast enough. I think the answer to this problem unfortunately is patience and let the battery charger do its thing.
 
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