Smallest manual steering box

Discussion in 'Suspension, Steering and Chassis' started by jw97neon, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. jw97neon

    jw97neon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    62
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Location:
    utah
    Local Time:
    5:25 PM
    Who makes the smallest steering gear box? Must be manual. Thanks
     
  2. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod Just another dumbass. Technical Editor

    Messages:
    46,223
    Likes Received:
    10610
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    View My Photos
    Local Time:
    7:25 PM
    I believe the stock one is about the smallest one there is. It's very small for a gearbox.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • 72bluNblu

      72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      8,842
      Likes Received:
      2758
      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2008
      Location:
      NorCal
      Local Time:
      4:25 PM
      There aren’t many options available for a manual box anyway. There’s the stock manual boxes, the new reproductions of the original style boxes being sold by PST, and the Flaming River manual box.

      The case on the Flaming River box is shaped a little differently than the factory box, but if anything it’s bigger than the originals in a few spots. I’ve got one in my Duster, it’s definitely not any smaller than the originals are overall.

      I assume the reproductions of the original boxes are the same size as the originals, maybe @PST can confirm that.

      Why the focus on the size of the manual steering box?
       
    • halifaxhops

      halifaxhops It's going to get stupid around here! FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      44,528
      Likes Received:
      13142
      Joined:
      Jan 20, 2014
      Location:
      CENTRURAL, PA
      View My Photos
      Local Time:
      7:25 PM
      I have one from a 66 Cuda if you need measurements.
       
    • moparcrazy

      moparcrazy Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      352
      Likes Received:
      41
      Joined:
      Dec 26, 2009
      Location:
      America the Great !
      Local Time:
      6:25 PM
      I believe its the 2004 jeep box that's been converted to fit our year and model cars, I went to rack and pinion on my 65 Plymouth.
       
    • jw97neon

      jw97neon Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      240
      Likes Received:
      62
      Joined:
      Sep 10, 2013
      Location:
      utah
      Local Time:
      5:25 PM
      only because I am putting a modern hemi in my 65 dart. Just thinking if there is a smaller on the market I would look into it because I am going to be replacing mine anyways.
       
    • jw97neon

      jw97neon Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      240
      Likes Received:
      62
      Joined:
      Sep 10, 2013
      Location:
      utah
      Local Time:
      5:25 PM
      I will go to a rack and pinion setup if I need to. But I have a coil over conversion right now and bought it because I am sure I can make the hemi fit with a box.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • 72bluNblu

        72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        8,842
        Likes Received:
        2758
        Joined:
        Nov 28, 2008
        Location:
        NorCal
        Local Time:
        4:25 PM
        What coil over conversion uses the stock steering box? That’s probably the single biggest reason to do a coil over conversion, front steer rack and pinion without the Ackerman disaster you get trying to convert the Mopar rear steer suspension to a rack. Everything else can be done with torsion bars and proper tuning.
         
      • jw97neon

        jw97neon Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        240
        Likes Received:
        62
        Joined:
        Sep 10, 2013
        Location:
        utah
        Local Time:
        5:25 PM
        . Uses stock steering and gets rid of the torsion bars for added room.

        6296B566-6EA9-46EA-BFE6-AF53CD554498.jpeg

        4B6FD816-D584-4A04-911F-A83344F8C338.jpeg
         
      • pishta

        pishta I know I'm right....

        Messages:
        12,943
        Likes Received:
        2828
        Joined:
        Oct 13, 2004
        Location:
        Tustin, CA
        View My Photos
        Local Time:
        4:25 PM
        can those shock hoops support standard stud mount shocks?
         
      • jw97neon

        jw97neon Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        240
        Likes Received:
        62
        Joined:
        Sep 10, 2013
        Location:
        utah
        Local Time:
        5:25 PM
        They mount using a bolt through the old shock hole on the support brace of the car. So Likely not.
         
      • pishta

        pishta I know I'm right....

        Messages:
        12,943
        Likes Received:
        2828
        Joined:
        Oct 13, 2004
        Location:
        Tustin, CA
        View My Photos
        Local Time:
        4:25 PM
        oof, Good to know. Wonder if the shock stud could be used through this hole for the support also? Just asking because I ditched the inners and thought these would be cleaner than a cageless J-bar with shock mount welded on.
         
      • jw97neon

        jw97neon Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        240
        Likes Received:
        62
        Joined:
        Sep 10, 2013
        Location:
        utah
        Local Time:
        5:25 PM
        . Ya not sure. My guess is no due to why to much movement without the support of the stock mount.
         
      • 72bluNblu

        72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        8,842
        Likes Received:
        2758
        Joined:
        Nov 28, 2008
        Location:
        NorCal
        Local Time:
        4:25 PM
        Oh I remember those kits now. I still really dislike that LCA mounting design, there's just no way that's a good idea for use on a street car.

        Seems like a full K member replacement like the HDK or RMS would be the way to go. Better geometry (not mixing and matching coil overs and stock parts), rack and pinion, engine mounts to fit the late model hemi- the extra cost would be well worth it.

        Also, just FYI, to go to a rack you'd basically have to start over. Since that kit keeps all of the stock steering components and spindles, you'd have the same serious Ackerman issues converting to a rack and pinion as a stock Mopar.
         
      • jw97neon

        jw97neon Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        240
        Likes Received:
        62
        Joined:
        Sep 10, 2013
        Location:
        utah
        Local Time:
        5:25 PM
        . I am well aware of what will be required if I change it. Lca mounts just like the factory and now has a added support mount at the pivot. Not really sure on how that makes a ton of difference. I know you know way more about this stuff then me that is for sure. So I can’t and will not argue you about it. What is the reason you dislike the design of the lower lca? I do know that what I give for this kit was pennies for what it costs for a full k member setup. I have seen just one early a body with a modern hemi using a steering box. I felt if he/they could do it, so could I. Worst come to worst. I ending up buying a full front end kit.
         
        Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
      • PST

        PST Marketing Manager FABO Vendor

        Messages:
        752
        Likes Received:
        185
        Joined:
        Apr 22, 2009
        Location:
        Montville, NJ
        Local Time:
        7:25 PM
        72bluNblu is correct the box that we sell is a reproductions of the original boxes

        Thanks
        James From
         
      • jw97neon

        jw97neon Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        240
        Likes Received:
        62
        Joined:
        Sep 10, 2013
        Location:
        utah
        Local Time:
        5:25 PM
        Good to know thanks guys.
         
      • 383Scampman

        383Scampman Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        843
        Likes Received:
        216
        Joined:
        Nov 24, 2013
        Location:
        New Hampshire
        Local Time:
        7:25 PM
        The smallest manual steering box I have ever seen is a Ross . It is used on Sprint cars, Funny Cars , t.f. dragsters and Altereds . Weighs about 3 lbs.
         
      • 72bluNblu

        72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        8,842
        Likes Received:
        2758
        Joined:
        Nov 28, 2008
        Location:
        NorCal
        Local Time:
        4:25 PM
        Is there a support that gets welded or bolted to the frame to support the rear of that extended LCA pin? There wasn't one on the other kits I've seen. That's the biggest issue I have with it.

        Having the torsion bar back there actually does add support to the back of the LCA in the factory design. It's not fully supported on that side, but it keeps the LCA from just being completely cantilevered off the factory LCA pin tubes. That's the issue with the other design I've seen, the torsion bar is removed but nothing replaces it. So the factory pin tubes support everything on a full cantilever. We already know the factory pin mounts were prone to failure inside the K member even with just the stock parts. This LCA design lengthens the pin with some kind of extension, so you add more leverage to generate force on the pin tubes. There's no way I'd run them without gusseting the K member, even if there is an added bracket somewhere behind the new LCA to support the other end of the pins.

        Look, I know I'm a fan of the torsion bar suspension, and I'll admit as much. But I do see some of the advantages gained with the full coil-over conversions- mostly the rack and pinion honestly, but I imagine with an early A and a late Gen hemi you have clearance issues to worry about too so a conversion makes sense. The problem is, this isn't a full conversion. You're still using the factory spindles and suspension points designed for the torsion bar suspension, but with coil-overs instead. Short ones at that, because they're several inches shorter than the original shocks were because of the way they mount. It just seems like a bunch of random suspension parts tossed together. At least with the RMS or HDK you get a complete suspension system that was designed for coil-overs, you know the geometry works because it was all designed to work together. With this you get a random mix of factory parts and mounts intended for torsion bars with aftermarket stuff added in. I honestly just don't think the same level of design and engineering is reached as with the factory parts or any of the full coil over conversions out there.

        That's just my opinion. I haven't seen that kit in person so maybe it's not as bad as it seems.
         
        • Like Like x 1
        • junior636

          junior636 Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          571
          Likes Received:
          28
          Joined:
          Oct 28, 2009
          Location:
          Grand Rapids, MI
          Local Time:
          6:25 PM
          There is a brace that bolts or welds to the frame with a triangulated bracket. The length of the replacement pivot pin isn't much longer than the stock pivot pins, off the top of my head it's probably an inch longer.

          20151108_150832.jpg

          20151118_191905_1.jpg
           
        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

          Messages:
          8,842
          Likes Received:
          2758
          Joined:
          Nov 28, 2008
          Location:
          NorCal
          Local Time:
          4:25 PM
          Well there you go. That would solve the complaints I had about the LCA design, thanks for the pictures!

          I still don't think that's the best way to do a coil over conversion, but the rest of the compromises are just relatively minor suspension geometry stuff. Well, and the lack of a rack and pinion.
           
        • jw97neon

          jw97neon Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          240
          Likes Received:
          62
          Joined:
          Sep 10, 2013
          Location:
          utah
          Local Time:
          5:25 PM
          Thanks Jeremy.