Sneaky Sleeper /6 Build

Slant 6 Engines

  1. Raleigh Rocket

    Raleigh Rocket Shake 'n' Bake!

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    It's time for a fun build, fellers. I picked up a 4dr '75 Valiant from an old woman's tobacco barn that's in killer shape, and you'll learn one thing about me reeeeal quick: I can't leave well enough alone.

    Here's the car:
    [​IMG]

    I just picked up a slant six out of a '72 Dart on Saturday from **** (**********, on this forum) over in ********, NC for a real good price. There's a 14 second, 6-banger Dart Swinger owned by Greg Ondayko from Irwin, PA that was featured in the June 2009 issue of Mopar Muscle that I want to base the build on. It's perfect for what I'm aiming for, but there aren't too many details in the article other than the basic setup.

    I've built a handfull of LAs and a couple of B engines, but this is gonna bust my sixxer cherry, so I'd appreciate any input you pros have. I'll post pictures and updates along the way.

    I've about got it broken down to the bare block, then it's got a hot date with the machinist, so that's what I want to talk about first. I plan on an overbore, of course. I want to stick with .030, but I have a buddy who seems to think .040 or more would be better. I want to mill the deck and was considering .100, just like the article, but I don't want race-gas compression. I'll spend the extra money on high test pump gas, though, no sweat. What do y'all salty old veterans think?

    I'm committed to this totally and have some solid financial backing but I don't necessarily want to rape the mint, either. No 340, no R/B, slant 6 all the way. After all, what's sneakier than a stock-appearing slant six in granny's 4-door church-mobile?
     
  2. 805moparkid

    805moparkid Slant and AFX Guy

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    if ur gonna over bore it, i would look into the weisco .104 kit. very nice stuff, they came out right after i finished mine... if u cant afford theose summit also has .060 and .080 over, rings are hard to find on the 080's tho.

    the hooker supercomp headers fit and are really tuned length summit and autozone carry them.

    i have an erson 282/282 .510 cam but nobody can get ahold of them so ur gonna have to find another cam place, like Schneider.

    if u can swing the aussie manifold then run the 4 brl one if not use the clifford.

    who is gonna port ur cylinder head? i went .110 off the head and u can easily do .050 off the block so figure out with a comp calculator what u need and piston the deck hight to be as well as c of chambers.

    what kind of hp are u looking for? rpm range?
     

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  3. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

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    This is just MY opinion, so take it as it's written; just an old man's opinion....

    My personal car is a 1972 Valiant 4-door sedan with a flat hood, no body modifications and came from Momma Mopar as a 318 2bbl car.

    I added a 360 Magnum (from a low-mileage Durango), a 4bbl carb, a mild Hughes cam, 340 exhaust manifolds, dual exhausts, an 8.75" rear, some 8-inch slicks and it ran 13.35 @ 102 mph on a 95 degree day at sea-level.

    Not satisfied, (you're not the only one who can't leave well-enough, alone) I traded the 340 manifolds for a set of tti step headers, the piss-poor low-rise, MP 180-degree manifold for a Chinese rip-off of an Edelbrock Air Gap intake, and replaced the 3310 Holley with a Carb Shop modified 750 double pumper set up for blow-thru supercharging. I bought a brand new Vortech S-trim, V-1 centrifugal blower off ebay for $1,000.00. Had to build my own blower mount, and by the time I had a half-inch fuel system and an MSD Boostmaster onboard (along with a Snow Performance BoostCooler water/meth injector,) I was wishing I had a rich uncle who liked Hot Rodding.

    But, the car picked up about 16 mph and ran approximately 1.8 seconds quicker (will go 11.50s, or so) with the new parts. Still idles at 475 rpm and makes 12 inches of vacuum for the power brakes, but pump gas would be instant death for this motor (still has the stock pistons and head gaskets.) It makes 445 rwhp on the dyno on av gas. That's up from 260 without the blower.

    After I spent all that money and ended up with only a mid-11 second car (albeit with great driveability), I became aware of some slant 6 cars that made my car look like do-do.

    Here's what I learned:

    Because slant sixes were ORIGINALLY intended to be aluminum blocks, they were designed with overly thick everything... but the aluminum engines had so many problems, that Mopar abandoned the aluminum construction early-on, and simply poured cast iron in its place, without changing anything... so, what you have is a super strong engine in terms of construction, where it counts.

    For example, the deck surface where the head bolts I am told, is approx. a half-inch thick. The head suface is equally robust, and the cylinder walls are so thick, they can be bored .100"!

    Though there are only 4 main bearings, they are aproximately the size of the bearings in a 440.

    Forged rods and pistons are available from Wiseco and their sister company, K-1 (and other sources.)

    There's only one downside to this engine, as I see it: The head was designed for 170, and the ports and valves are not really suitable for a 225. There are some strong running normally aspirated Valiants and Darts out there, but they are rare.

    My opinion??? This engine was born to use some sort of forced induction for two reasons: #1... It is very difficult to build a lot of horsepower in a 225 with the asthmatic head we are forced to use. #2 The basic engine is so strong, you can boost it to levels that would give a Buick GN engine all sorts of trouble, make excessive horsepower, and have an engine that will live.

    Check out the turbcharged slant sixes on You Tube... low 11's and high 10s are not unusual.

    You can't, of course, build a cheap slant six, and slap a turbo on it and go that fast, but I have read about nearly stock slant sixes that had a minimum of mods to the engine, running low 12's, with a turbo...

    Look what I had to do to my 360 to get it to run in that neighborhood...

    So, I'm building a slant six powered car, with a turbo. I guarantee it will beat the pants off my Vortech blown 360 car. My partner and I HOPE this thing will run 11 flat, or better. Talk's cheap, though; we'll see!!! :)

    I guess my advice to you is to build a cheap tubo slant six with probably only ten or twelve pounds of boost, and it likely live forever and run in the high 12's....:cheers:

    Here are some pix of this stuff...

    Like I said, this is only my opinion.... yer mileage may vary...

    Bill, in Conway, AR
     

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  4. 64physhy

    64physhy Well-Known Member

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    Man, that's one straight and clean looking Valiant!
    One question: Why are you only shooting for 14 sec? /6's are capable of way faster. Might not be cheap to build, but it would be cool to blow the doors off a V8 with a /6.

    I say shoot for high 11's or low 12's. I know they are capable of 10's, but that's probably a hemi worth of cash to build.
     
  5. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

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  6. Backtobasics

    Backtobasics Well-Known Member

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    Bill,
    I like your thinking.

    You / Shaker / Mad Scientist Mat are inspirational. I know there are others out there, but the overall direction is very exciting.
     
  7. 66aCUDA

    66aCUDA /6 Racer

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    If you want to know about Greg's build Im sure he would share it with you. He is on here and slantsix.org as Greg Ondayko .
    Frank
     
  8. rumblefish360

    rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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    Ha ha ha ha, you and I both. Stock aint cuttin it.

    I think, have at it and have a blast.
     
  9. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

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    None of this (our slant 6) engine would have happened, but for the excellent advice of Shaker223, whose engine build we copied down to the letter! He took us by the hand and led us through the planning stages, showed us where to get the parts, and kept us out of trouble; his help was invaluable, throughout. He even modified our carb for blow-thru, not an easy task. Thank you, Tom!!!! You're the best!!!

    Frank Brent and Charlie Schmidt were also most helpful in suggesting and procuring some hard-to-find parts for our little project. We got a lot of good advice from a couple of great guys, there!

    Now, if it doesn't RUN, it's on us!!!! :( Like I sed, "Talk's cheap.... we'll see!"

    Thanks to everyone who helped!

    Bill Dedman and Freddie Nielsen
     
  10. memike

    memike Super Moderator Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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    My hat is off to you Bill Dedman:cheers: I have seen your more door Valiant turbo build and enjoyed a day with you :happy10: Thank you for gathering this info and attempting this cool build.=P~=P~
    It's time for another visit so I can enjoy some good BBQ and see this build. Did I understand this to be a 170 low deck / ?
     
  11. rick360

    rick360 - Mopar Or No Car -

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    That thing is sweet, where can I find something like that for my 318 I'm building? THAT will be a sleeper. But your slant-6 idea is cool too though. What kind of Carb you run on a 225? (Or whatever your cubes will when you are done.)
     
  12. 2 Darts

    2 Darts A-body Addicted

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    The slants are a little notorious for core shift in the casting. That may affect how far your block can be bored.

    My ultimate /6 stealth mobile would have a FI turbo and an OD auto. It might sound like an Electrolux on speed, but I'll be so far ahead, you won't hear me laughing.

    SlantSix.Org has the shopping list of what you'll need for the FI. There's plenty of guys who have done this before.

    Live long and prosper.
     
  13. Raleigh Rocket

    Raleigh Rocket Shake 'n' Bake!

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    Ugh... I may never get started if I cant get the dang ol' crank pulley off. This thing is NOT wanting to budge. If only I had some air tools...
     
  14. Raleigh Rocket

    Raleigh Rocket Shake 'n' Bake!

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    Right now it's got a Holley single barrel. As for picking a carb, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I'll pick the best one for the engine, but I have to figure out exactly what direction I'm taking first.

    I'm sort of groping in the dark because I have ZERO slant 6 experience and I wasn't totally aware of this platform's potential. I thought mid 14sec E/Ts were damned respectable, but now I'm hearing 11s and 12s?! Hot dang! That gives me a chubby!

    I don't like the idea of a turbo, to be honest. I may end up in the clink for bashing the first clown who makes a ricer comment...
     
  15. Raleigh Rocket

    Raleigh Rocket Shake 'n' Bake!

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    I'll probably find a later head with the hardened seats and port it myself. What kind of output are you getting with that engine in the picture? Does that carb clear the hood?
     
  16. Raleigh Rocket

    Raleigh Rocket Shake 'n' Bake!

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    Update: I got the crank pulley off.

    The trick, you ask? Curse. Alot. If you just badmouth it real loud and throw a wrench (note: it's absolutely imperative that you knock over a bucket of carb cleaner), the thing'll just pop right off.
     
  17. Shaker223

    Shaker223 Boost Rules

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    You're welcome Bill! Your car will be a real flyer!!! You and Fred had better belt in tight.
     
  18. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

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    Hey, Memike... good to hear from you~!

    I'm looking forward to a trip to West Plains, MO where they now have a Maid Rite!!! I'd like nothing better than to buy you and Smallblock a cheeserite and some chips!!! Gonna happen, down the road!

    This car we're attempting to build needs all the power it can muster, so it's as big as we could afford to make it. I think it ended up something like 233 cubic inches, give or take. A high-winding 170 would sound great, for sure, but would require better valve train components, and we could ill afford it. We're going for a 6-grand redline. Hopefully, it will last a while, at that rpm limit.

    We'll see...

    Thanks ffor the kind words!!!!Hope to see you. soon!


    Bill, in Conway, AR
     
  19. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

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  20. 805moparkid

    805moparkid Slant and AFX Guy

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    the 66-69 head is the one i have, and having hardend seat installed isn't nothing becasue ur going either 1.7/1.44 or ford 300 valves.
    the carb is a holley DP 600
    and no it doesn't clear the hood but i have a 2 in spacer under it.
     
  21. Raleigh Rocket

    Raleigh Rocket Shake 'n' Bake!

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    I knew I didn't like the look of that crank!! The stroke looked awful short to me.

    ...so I scraped the crud from the side of the block and the casting confirmed my worst fear: 170 c.i.d. :angry7:

    '65 date casting... matching numbers from a '72 Dart my pink, rebel pecker!

    Back to the drawing board, Gents.
     
  22. 805moparkid

    805moparkid Slant and AFX Guy

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    make a hi reving 170!
     
  23. mopardrt

    mopardrt Well-Known Member

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    all this makes me want to start a slant six build now hahaha
     
  24. Raleigh Rocket

    Raleigh Rocket Shake 'n' Bake!

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    Man, don't get me worked up. What in Hell are you talking about?

    what kind of performance are we talking about?
     
  25. sr71mopar

    sr71mopar P-18 4 door

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    Anyone ever to put a 225 crank in a 170?
     
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