So....What is YOUR opinion on VIN swaps ?

[jimharvard]

You know what sheets me about you VIN Nazis?

You are the way you are because you care about the "investment" more than you care about the enjoyment of spannering on old cars.

You think that anyone swapping a VIN is setting out to make $100K from a slant 6 Barracuda. Mostly these guys are just trying to get their titled car back on the road. Most of them are average Joes.

You scrotes post all fake angry here and shout illegal this, lock-him-up that....and it's you preeks that are defacto defending the investors who have made the car of your dreams un-fkn-obtainable.

You need to have a good think about what you're doing. I say flood the market with AAR Cudas and Hemi Roadrunners......the "real" enthusiasts deserve to have the opportunity to have the car of their dreams.

mr. gorsky...

i really don't see why you are so upset. this post is/was just a discussion of the importance of VIN numbers on rebuilt/restored collector cars. all i've done in my comments is to present what the law says about VIN numbers. that's pretty much what the majority of other commenters also discussed. anyone reading this thread can do whatever they want with their car - with no consequences or some major consequences. AND there are a lot of folks here on FABO that are actually interested in hearing people's opinions - on any number of topics.

like i said, i don't know why you're so upset. just continue doing whatever you have been doing with your cars...

 

[74Dusted]

Yes that was great foresight on the owners part when it was wrecked. But really, how many people actually think of that? Not many. They are just happy to get their car repaired. As far as engine and trans matching numbers that only started in 1969, so prior to that having an engine and trans with casting date numbers prior to vehicle build date is usually sufficient.

What about warranty blocks. They are in demand. The vin partial pads are machined, but no digits stamped. So if your high dollar resto project is missing its date coded block, do you find a warranty block cast 1 month prior to your car build, and stamp your vin partial on it, and use it, or look for a warranty block cast a year or 2 after your cars build date and pass it off as a warranty block with no numbers but correct for a resto?

I would say scenario #1 is fraud, stamping the vin partial in a warranty block to pass it off as original. Scenario #2 is prob legit, any number of these cars were run hard and blown up, in this case its entirely possible the original engine could have been destroyed and replaced under warranty.

After the middle of 1970 fraudulently stamping the vin on a warranty block doesn't work for 340 Cars (unless it's an AAR or TA car), from 1970 on, Warranty Replacement 340's were actually T/A Blocks. Pretty hard to pass a T/A Block off as the Numbers Matching engine for a 72 340 Duster (example)

I have one of those Warranty Replacement 340 T/A's, it came with one of my '73 340 Dart Sports, ran it for years in '74 Twister.

 

[Mr Gorsky]

Look whose showing the anger.? It's not about the cloning that should be your concern. It's weather or not it is legal or not or dare I say morally responsible or not! Because sooner or later your going to want to sell that Frankenstein you created to some unknowing person. But then I would suspect you would blame them for being stupid enough to buy it EH?

I've never created a "Frankenstein" but I'm on record in this thread saying I'd be very happy to buy one.

I'm about condition, not about a few stamped numbers on the radiator support panel.

California, Nevada, Utah....send me your dodgy Demons.

 

[moparmat2000]

I personally dont have a problem making a silk purse out of a sows ear. I have pieced these cars together my whole life. I could never afford to buy one of the high dollar ones. So i would build my own. A piece from here, a piece from there. Every one of mine have been frankensteins. So what if my slant sux coupe will be a formula S "fake" it retains the slant sux vin. That goes back to "caviet emptor" Let the buyer beware. I would never pass it off as legit. If i did have money flowing outta my *** and was in the market for an original hemi car etc, yes i'd want to make sure it wasnt fraudulently represented.

I think this is the double edged sword. On one hand you have people who cant afford to buy the high dollar ones nowadays, so they build their own "tributes" to enjoy. And you have the guys who can afford the original ones and want to make sure they are getting what they pay for. And in the middle you have the thieves and counterfeiters looking to swap vins and numbers from rusty and wrecked beyond repair high dollar vehicles to good bodies to make a quick buck.

I agree with mr jimharvards statements. Dont use intent to decieve. If its a rebody of a valuable car all vins swapped etc, then disclose it to a potential buyer in writing. Maybe even take and keep pix of the rusty and or wrecked cadaver the numbers were pulled from to show it was way beyong repair, thus the reason for the body swap.

These cars are now way beyond just used cars, the rarer ones are now bought and traded as investments. Nobody in that circle wants to pay full price for a diamond only to find out later its just cut glass, and in that case fraud lawsuits can and do happen.

The rebodys are great. I am glad the aftermarket is able to do this for the more popular models of muscle cars. I never thought i would see the day where repop bodies for these would become available. However It certainly does open up a can of worms for fraud though. I dont know about y'all but i dont have a pair of balls big enough to pass off a swarvoski crystal as a diamond. Do you?

 

['Cause]

Yes, its the data plate the codes are for paint, trim, and options it had, including axle and ratio. It also includes the vin to match the dash. Did you find the other 2 sets of stamped numbers on the body i told you about?

The one on the radiator support, I didn't want to tear off the weather seal on the trunk so I haven't looked there. I was just curious and trying to gain some knowledge here, not into any of the perceived drama.
I thank you for the info on where to look for VIN's & Body numbers.

Ken

 

[adriver]

It seems to me that admonishing me to know my state laws is all well and good.
But trying to apply the laws to antique cars is like trying to apply transgender bathroom laws to the Little House On The Prairie outhouse.
The laws were never intended to cover 50 year old cars and Model Ts.
Where the hell is the VIN on one of those things anyway?
Oh here it is.
Model T Ford Forum: 1926 Model T Coupe VIN Number
No, there it is.
Well, maybe not.,

It's all fun and games until money, insurance companies, the government get involved.

 

[moparmat2000]

The one on the radiator support, I didn't want to tear off the weather seal on the trunk so I haven't looked there. I was just curious and trying to gain some knowledge here, not into any of the perceived drama.
I thank you for the info on where to look for VIN's & Body numbers.

Ken

The trunk rail one is prob the same as the rad core support one. I doubt anybody would have moved those around on a 73 scamp. Sounds like a cool big block buildup. Have a blast with it. These cars were meant to be enjoyed.

As far as drama is concerned, this aint nuthin. Go check out the news and politics forum on here lol. I'm not a gold member anymore but i bet the **** slingin is real crazy in there now after the election.