Wider gaps put more stress on the plug wires too.
Yes sir. Just no need for it. All you need is the minimum gap to get it did! .035" - .045" will normally get it done for just about everything.
Wider gaps put more stress on the plug wires too.
RRR,
You might want to try reading your own links before you criticise others. Your Champion link in post 17 says this about Plat, Irid plugs: ' decreases the misfire rate' & ' increases firing efficiency'.
NGK link, post #18 about resistance. Do you know what the 'n' before the ohms symbol means? It means 'billionth'. So the copper resistance was 16.78 n-ohms or....drum roll....0.000001678 ohms. And 0.00000693 ohms for nickel.
The copper was NEVER used in spark plug cores to reduce electrical resistance because it would have made no measurable difference to the spark current because of all the other resistances in the spark cct [ the resistor in the spark plug alone is between 3000-6000 ohms ]. The copper was used because it conducts heat better. Nothing to with with it's electrical properties. It heated up the tip quicker to burn off deposits, stop fouling.
Some people have learned nothing from automotive history, when the plugs were 18mm big, used magnetos for ign with 0.015" plug gaps. Bigger gaps don't help? Hmm, why aren't we still at 0.015"? Somebody forgot to tell Honda because they built an engine decades back that had a miniature combustion chamber next to the main chamber; idea was the small chamber to be ignited by a spark or glow plug & the small chamber bonfire ignited the main chamber.
Plug gaps have got bigger [ not smaller, funny that ? ] over the years as innovation has provided improvements. Phil Jacobs, founder of Jacob Ign Systems claims the ideal plug gap is 0.100"; mentioned more than once in his book, Performance Ign Systems. Hmm....MSD recommends up to 0.060" gaps with the 6A box & up to 10.5 CR. Hmm. Accel 300 unit, 0.040: plug gaps for 12:1 & 0.050" or more for lower comp ratios. Hmm. DUI, Chrys dist in their catalog with GM module on the side:" Allow your plug gaps to be opened up to 0.055"! DUI HEI dist ' 0.055"-0.060" plug gaps. Hmm.
It is true that larger plug gaps put more load on the ign system. That is why Plat/Irid plugs are a good idea because they take less firing voltage & you can increase the gap & still not stress your ign system. Other benefits that I do not think have been mentioned:
- the Plat/Irid tips run slightly hotter, burn off deposits that might otherwise kill the spark.
- electrons jump more readily from a hotter surface. By having the centre electrode hotter, it is encouraging spark formation.
- why do some P & I plugs also have P & I inserts on the ground straps? Because they are much harder metals & take longer to erode the electrode surface. Eroded electrodes means increased gap...& misfire.
RRR,
You might want to try reading your own links before you criticise others. Your Champion link in post 17 says this about Plat, Irid plugs: ' decreases the misfire rate' & ' increases firing efficiency'.
NGK link, post #18 about resistance. Do you know what the 'n' before the ohms symbol means? It means 'billionth'. So the copper resistance was 16.78 n-ohms or....drum roll....0.000001678 ohms. And 0.00000693 ohms for nickel.
The copper was NEVER used in spark plug cores to reduce electrical resistance because it would have made no measurable difference to the spark current because of all the other resistances in the spark cct [ the resistor in the spark plug alone is between 3000-6000 ohms ]. The copper was used because it conducts heat better. Nothing to with with it's electrical properties. It heated up the tip quicker to burn off deposits, stop fouling.
Some people have learned nothing from automotive history, when the plugs were 18mm big, used magnetos for ign with 0.015" plug gaps. Bigger gaps don't help? Hmm, why aren't we still at 0.015"? Somebody forgot to tell Honda because they built an engine decades back that had a miniature combustion chamber next to the main chamber; idea was the small chamber to be ignited by a spark or glow plug & the small chamber bonfire ignited the main chamber.
Plug gaps have got bigger [ not smaller, funny that ? ] over the years as innovation has provided improvements. Phil Jacobs, founder of Jacob Ign Systems claims the ideal plug gap is 0.100"; mentioned more than once in his book, Performance Ign Systems. Hmm....MSD recommends up to 0.060" gaps with the 6A box & up to 10.5 CR. Hmm. Accel 300 unit, 0.040: plug gaps for 12:1 & 0.050" or more for lower comp ratios. Hmm. DUI, Chrys dist in their catalog with GM module on the side:" Allow your plug gaps to be opened up to 0.055"! DUI HEI dist ' 0.055"-0.060" plug gaps. Hmm.
It is true that larger plug gaps put more load on the ign system. That is why Plat/Irid plugs are a good idea because they take less firing voltage & you can increase the gap & still not stress your ign system. Other benefits that I do not think have been mentioned:
- the Plat/Irid tips run slightly hotter, burn off deposits that might otherwise kill the spark.
- electrons jump more readily from a hotter surface. By having the centre electrode hotter, it is encouraging spark formation.
- why do some P & I plugs also have P & I inserts on the ground straps? Because they are much harder metals & take longer to erode the electrode surface. Eroded electrodes means increased gap...& misfire.
NGK developed the copper core spark plug in 1965. Holley did it 7 years later.....
Maybe Holley was the first American company to market them.
NGK developed the copper core spark plug in 1965. Holley did it 7 years later.....
Maybe Holley was the first American company to market them.
If you have a link to this information I’d like to see it. I can find nothing that validates your claim. Doesn’t mean you are wrong. Just means I can’t find anywhere where even NGK says that. And really, who cares who developed it? Things can be developed simultaneously and all the parties involved may have no knowledge of it.
Both are emission type ultra long life (100K) plugs that require a perfect A/F and a new car cylinder/ring pack to last as they dont usually have the beans to burn themselves clean. In a 'dirty A/F' carb app, they wont last. I like the NGK V-power with the split "forked tongue" ground. On the other hand, EFI does make for a clean combustion but paying >$9 for a plug is insane for a V8 (how about a 2 plug per jug hemi?) who's plugs are right there to take out and test or clean or replace or change heat ranges.Thanks for the assistance. What are your thoughts on iridium or platinum tip plugs. Any benefits or drawbacks?
He may not be wrong, but what bearing do any of his points have here but to muddy the waters with him trying to show everybody how smart he is......and that remains to be seen. I have my doubts.
RRR,
You are the typical forum bully, shown in other threads, not just this one. You feel threatened when somebody replies who knows more than you do.....which isn't too hard sometimes. You are the one that is muddying the waters with blanket statements with no supporting info. Apparently, your opinion [ not facts ] is what counts & anybody/everybody else is wrong. Memo, pal....
Three times that I have seen since I joined this forum, you have insulted my country. Only low lifes insult a person's country. I couldn't care less about personal insults, especially from you. Keep 'em coming! I could have responded to many more threads that you posted in with info that was...how do I say it nicely...BS. But I chose not to post.
This thread started out with the OP asking, 'Why are there so many plug choices'. I am, & continue to provide answers to that question. To answer it effectively requires some history & understanding of how spark plugs work if the OP wants to make an objective conclusion...
And now some more important info about P & I plugs. I do not know how to link articles. This is from Jerry Reeves, Engineering Director at Autolite from enginelabs.com/engine-tech/ignition.
'Moving to Iridium plugs could potentially be a performance advantage, can reduce the reqd coil voltage as much as 20%.....fine wire Irid plugs can improve the combustion process even if there is a high level of exh gas-built in EGR- as with engines with long duration cams.....Claims that fine wire plugs run hotter & should be avoided in supercharged/turbo applications is not true. Reeves points out the fact support the exact opposite conclusion: 2018 Supercharged dodge Hellcat-707hp- specs rid plugs. Turbo 4 cyl Ford engine that pushes as much as 25 psi of boost uses Irid plugs. Let's look at some facts that support why fine wire plugs are a good choice for a performance engine.....
448Scamp,
You will find the intro date for NGK copper plugs [ 1965 ] if you look up NGK history on the net.
RRR,
You are the typical forum bully, shown in other threads, not just this one. You feel threatened when somebody replies who knows more than you do.....which isn't too hard sometimes. You are the one that is muddying the waters with blanket statements with no supporting info. Apparently, your opinion [ not facts ] is what counts & anybody/everybody else is wrong. Memo, pal....
Three times that I have seen since I joined this forum, you have insulted my country. Only low lifes insult a person's country. I couldn't care less about personal insults, especially from you. Keep 'em coming! I could have responded to many more threads that you posted in with info that was...how do I say it nicely...BS. But I chose not to post.
This thread started out with the OP asking, 'Why are there so many plug choices'. I am, & continue to provide answers to that question. To answer it effectively requires some history & understanding of how spark plugs work if the OP wants to make an objective conclusion...
And now some more important info about P & I plugs. I do not know how to link articles. This is from Jerry Reeves, Engineering Director at Autolite from enginelabs.com/engine-tech/ignition.
'Moving to Iridium plugs could potentially be a performance advantage, can reduce the reqd coil voltage as much as 20%.....fine wire Irid plugs can improve the combustion process even if there is a high level of exh gas-built in EGR- as with engines with long duration cams.....Claims that fine wire plugs run hotter & should be avoided in supercharged/turbo applications is not true. Reeves points out the fact support the exact opposite conclusion: 2018 Supercharged dodge Hellcat-707hp- specs rid plugs. Turbo 4 cyl Ford engine that pushes as much as 25 psi of boost uses Irid plugs. Let's look at some facts that support why fine wire plugs are a good choice for a performance engine.....
448Scamp,
You will find the intro date for NGK copper plugs [ 1965 ] if you look up NGK history on the net.
I wasn’t my intention to side track the OP’s thread. I thought it was interesting how the copper core plug was developed. But I does hove no bearing on the OP’s issue.
RRR,
You are the typical forum bully, shown in other threads, not just this one. You feel threatened when somebody replies who knows more than you do.....which isn't too hard sometimes. You are the one that is muddying the waters with blanket statements with no supporting info. Apparently, your opinion [ not facts ] is what counts & anybody/everybody else is wrong. Memo, pal....
Three times that I have seen since I joined this forum, you have insulted my country. Only low lifes insult a person's country. I couldn't care less about personal insults, especially from you. Keep 'em coming! I could have responded to many more threads that you posted in with info that was...how do I say it nicely...BS. But I chose not to post.
This thread started out with the OP asking, 'Why are there so many plug choices'. I am, & continue to provide answers to that question. To answer it effectively requires some history & understanding of how spark plugs work if the OP wants to make an objective conclusion...
And now some more important info about P & I plugs. I do not know how to link articles. This is from Jerry Reeves, Engineering Director at Autolite from enginelabs.com/engine-tech/ignition.
'Moving to Iridium plugs could potentially be a performance advantage, can reduce the reqd coil voltage as much as 20%.....fine wire Irid plugs can improve the combustion process even if there is a high level of exh gas-built in EGR- as with engines with long duration cams.....Claims that fine wire plugs run hotter & should be avoided in supercharged/turbo applications is not true. Reeves points out the fact support the exact opposite conclusion: 2018 Supercharged dodge Hellcat-707hp- specs rid plugs. Turbo 4 cyl Ford engine that pushes as much as 25 psi of boost uses Irid plugs. Let's look at some facts that support why fine wire plugs are a good choice for a performance engine.....
448Scamp,
You will find the intro date for NGK copper plugs [ 1965 ] if you look up NGK history on the net.
I can't get the link to work. Can you post the link?Bewy I just read your link, and the author didn’t say that the fine wire plug was a performance advantage but said it was a durability issue.
I can't get the link to work. Can you post the link?
I can't get the link to work. Can you post the link?
@Bewy is right. Iridium and platinum reduce the voltage required to ionize the gap and jump a spark.
Bigger gaps burn better and ignite more reliably given a wide range of AFR.
Many folks run a high output coil, capacitive discharge, or other ignition for "better spark" and yet iridium and platinum play a role in doing the same but get **** on as "unnecessary".
Platinum actually have the best voltage reduction compared to a standard plug if I recall correctly. I put a set in my motor recently for that very reason. Less voltage to create the spark equals less dwell needed and longer spark durations in the chamber. It didn't make any seat of the pants difference but as I've spot checked plugs they've showed a cleaner burn. Maybe it's the plugs, maybe not. The science is still sound..