SS springs & sliders...

Discussion in 'Mopar Racers Forum' started by inkjunkie, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. clementine

    clementine Flight risk FABO Gold Member

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    I noticed that some of the sliders have a bit of an angle to put the slot in line with the spring If I notch them in.... and put a slight angle to it....does that help anything?
     
  2. cannucky

    cannucky The Guy With No Birthday

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    I think you want them to run as true to the spring as possible , not sure what creating a ramp up or down really does other than maybe restrict movement a little .
     
  3. clementine

    clementine Flight risk FABO Gold Member

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    images.jpg As you can see these have an angle toward the front. This would create less restriction I believe. Most others, including the universals that I have... do not have the angle, but if Im notching them in, I have this opportunity. images.jpg
     
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    • cannucky

      cannucky The Guy With No Birthday

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      How can you tell which way is front ? if you go by the triangle then they are indeed angled down towards the front but keeping in mind the spring gets longer under load so that would be uphill causing more resistance on load and less on rebound , not sure if it's really enough either way to matter tho eh .
       
    • cannucky

      cannucky The Guy With No Birthday

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      how deep are you notching them in and why notch them at all ? your already gaining most of the length of the shackle in drop , you can only notch them in so deep before you create an interference of some sort or another wouldn't it be easier to re-arch your springs or use a lowering block if your trying to get lower ? I totally get why you would notch in the front but it seems like a whole lot of work for almost no pay off doing the back .
       
    • 72bluNblu

      72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      The ones shown above are Calvert made sliders, the arrow does indeed indicate the front. If you go to the calvert page and click on the picture of the sliders (it's giant!) you can see the stamped markings on them for the front and for the slider eye position. Calvert Leaf Spring Sliders [SL-300CR] - $189.00 : The Leader In Leaf Spring Innovation, - Calvert Racing

      The idea is that the slider track should be parallel to the angle of the spring- so if you draw a line through the spring eyes the track should be parallel to that line. Whatever angle is on the spring should be on the track. If the angle on the track matches the angle on the springs then the angle of the spring doesn't change even when the spring is moving back and forth under load. This is a little info on the spring sliders I found, sorry for the size of the image. It spends a lot of time talking about having the springs toed in, which changes how the geometry works on corner exits, but that part isn't really relevant to A-bodies as the springs are parallel to the center line. But it also covers the angle of the slider tracks. I'm pretty sure the application of the image is circle track, but I'm not positive.

      Slider_Tech.gif


      If you squint really hard in the image I posted above you can see there's a recommended angle for the rear springs. It shows a measurement of 6.5" to the bottom of the front eye and 14" to the middle of the rear eye. If you add the inch to go center to center, do some math, you come up with an angle of 6.8*. The stock mounting angle is a little shallower than that. The actual dimensions will change with the ride height, so, the arch of the spring and height of the rear tire, but the angle is the important part. On my car for example, with the sliders mounted flat, the front measurement is 7.5", the rear measurement is 15". Correcting that to center eye to center eye, I actually get the same angle as the picture, 6.8*. So, a notch on my car wouldn't necessarily be a good idea. But I use an offset front hanger, and it actually doesn't put the eye in the same vertical location as a stock hanger, so, other cars may be different.

      On that note, if you're using a Hotchkis front hanger, or an aftermarket hanger with a 1" lowering location for the front spring eye, you may need a notch to restore that geometry.

      Younggun2.0 did a notch with his sliders (and 3" relocation). You could add some angle to this operation pretty easily.
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]
       
      Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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      • clementine

        clementine Flight risk FABO Gold Member

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        Agreed. The missing part of my post (apologies) is that the instructions that come with the sliders suggest a difference of 7.5" in height between front and rear eye, and 1.5-2" lateral difference, giving the front of the spring more toe in. They say that a little of that will give the vehicle better cornering characteristics. I am not going to go that extreme, but may take advantage of those instructions to be able to put the slider where I want to...laterally. So, the car is mini tubbed and has the 3" relocation front US tool which gives me 3 heights of mounting front eye. At the lowest eye (which raises the car the highest) I have 7.25" of height difference. I was looking to not have the ass end up too far and so notching was going to give me "just a little more" room to play with. I do agree, for the work it may not be worth it. I should say "whatever" to the 7.5" #.... put the springs at the height I want and adjust the handling in another manner.
        Thanks for the reply!

        Oh Blu beat me too it....well done sir

        Ill post what I end up doing for posterity purposes.
         
        Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
      • cannucky

        cannucky The Guy With No Birthday

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        I wasn't trying to be critical , thanks to both of you for sharing this knowledge I am going to go to these sliders myself and will probably look to do something on the offset for cornering as well but not 2 " maybe drill a hole in the side of the rail to move a pair of offset front hangers over more by putting the welded nut in the rail.
         
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        • cannucky

          cannucky The Guy With No Birthday

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          This thread should now be a sticky
           
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          • 72bluNblu

            72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            No worries, I'm just trying to put more of the information out there.

            I'm not too sure I'd worry about re-engineering the leaf spring mounting to include toed in springs. If you did just remember that you'd have to make sure the rear sliders (or shackles) were matched to the angle of toe you put on the spring. E-bodies used an angled spring set up like that. Like everything in suspension, there are advantages and disadvantages to running the springs like that. For the amount of work it would take I would just leave them parallel to the centerline. Some of this stuff is really getting into some pretty small nuances of suspension. Not that it's not important, or that it can't lead to a better tuned suspension, but I think some of it is more like something you'd do after you identify a problem with how your suspension is working. As in, if you noticed that your car was constantly loose on corner exits, you might look into toeing the springs in a bit. But doing that can also cause some rear steer. That may be good, it'll help turn the car, or it may be something you don't like as a driver. And there are other ways to deal with that, like making adjustments to the rear sway bar or rear leaf spring rates.
             
          • cannucky

            cannucky The Guy With No Birthday

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            After re-reading and looking at that diagram I think I will actually buy a pair of rear hangers and have someone weld a plate to the lower edges that sticks outboard by 2 inches or so and forward by a few inches then find the sweet spot for the slider drill , tap and jamb nut the slider bracket to the plate then cut off the excess plate , maybe a reinforcing spacer/stiffener plate between the edges of the hanger bracket as well. I don't well but if I cut all the pieces I bet I can get someone to weld it all up pretty cheap for me .
             
          • cannucky

            cannucky The Guy With No Birthday

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            Thanks Blu , no rear bar , I have the SS springs I suppose I should use the lower drivers side for the height ratio eh ? I was typing the same time as you and have already abandoned moving the front I think I will shoot for an inch of movement outboard at the back , not enough to make it rear steer but enough to add a little lateral stiffness maybe ?
             
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            • clementine

              clementine Flight risk FABO Gold Member

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              I was thinking of fudging to the outside in rear as well for lateral gains but also to make a bit more room for my exhaust. I put the front 3" re-location hanger in parallel with centerline so maybe to not tweak the front eye, Ill just stick with centerline.

              Thanks 72Blu!
               
            • cannucky

              cannucky The Guy With No Birthday

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              Thanks again to both of you this is what this site is supposed to be about , teaching completely new ideas to us old dogs .
               
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              • 72bluNblu

                72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Remember that if you move the rear of the spring out laterally you'll be cheating yourself out of tire clearance. And yes, if the front hanger mount is parallel with with frame you want to keep your rear mount parallel to it, otherwise you will side load the front spring eye and spring.

                As far as lateral stiffness with the SS springs, I don't think it will be much of an issue. They do have a higher arch, but they're stiffer springs with reinforced front sections. The spring rate on them is borderline too high for handling operations already.
                 
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                • cannucky

                  cannucky The Guy With No Birthday

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                  Good point on the clearance ,I guess I'm back to the front offset and perch offset for clearance then find the natural center line of the spring for the mounting line for the slider .
                   
                • duster44d

                  duster44d Well-Known Member

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                  Just ordered my sliders I hope they make a small difference.
                   
                • duster44d

                  duster44d Well-Known Member

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                  Just got my brackets and now will install my sliders will post more photos later after install..

                  100E6019.JPG
                   
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                  • duster44d

                    duster44d Well-Known Member

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                    A reply to my own message to any who want to see..
                    So I have installed one side and here are 2 photos and the brackets came from e trailers.

                    100_6021.JPG

                    100_6020.JPG
                     
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                    • Cudafever

                      Cudafever Well-Known Member

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                      Are then pic's with the suspension loaded or in the air.
                      Is there going to be enough travel? in the slot.
                       
                    • clementine

                      clementine Flight risk FABO Gold Member

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                      yeah, I was waiting to do pinion angle and final weld on my sliders after I have the car back together for that very reason. I wont wait for necessarily interior but glass and spare will/probably be in place. Looks like he bolted in so he should be able to adjust if he is too short. .02
                       
                    • duster44d

                      duster44d Well-Known Member

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                      They are not in the air.In fact the bolts where not tighten down because I wanted to see where everything was at.I have it setup where I can make any adjustment.I have other slots so I can move the sliders forward or back.Refer back to page 1 and go to 13..
                       
                      Last edited: May 5, 2018
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                      • clementine

                        clementine Flight risk FABO Gold Member

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                        nice job man! and great camera work! Its good to see them at work.
                         
                      • Cudafever

                        Cudafever Well-Known Member

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                        I really thought that they would move more than that!
                        Did it 60' any better or feel any more stable on the top end.
                         
                        Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
                      • 68dodge

                        68dodge Well-Known Member

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                        Anyone do a video with the S/S springs?