stand alone EFI for gen3 hemis

-
Uhcoog, I may finally be able to make some progress on the knock sensor front. I got a little digital oscilloscope for Christmas, so I've been trying to figure out things to use it on. It was mainly needed to help with my speedo conversion I've been working on, but I realized it would probably work well with the knock sensors as well. If I can make any sense of the stock wiring, I might be able to finally read some kind of signal out of them.

The premise seems easy enough. The Megasquirt additional knock circuitry should work if I'm interpreting it correctly. To my eye, it basically reads a signal and when any portion of the signal exceeds a threshold value (tuneable by the circuit), it triggers a pulse from a timer circuit to the MS processor. The trick is knowing what signal the sensor outputs so you can determine the threshold value for the trigger. A GM one wire might be a 1-5V kind of signal (total guess, probably wrong), and the Hemi might have more like a 0-1V output for all I know. An amplifier in line might be all that's needed to make the signal easier for the circuit to see. Hopefully the scope will be sensitive enough to catch a pulse where my analog ohmeter wouldn't. Unfortunately, I still have no idea if my sensor are even good to begin with.
 
Map63Vette said:
Uhcoog, I may finally be able to make some progress on the knock sensor front. I got a little digital oscilloscope for Christmas, so I've been trying to figure out things to use it on. It was mainly needed to help with my speedo conversion I've been working on, but I realized it would probably work well with the knock sensors as well. If I can make any sense of the stock wiring, I might be able to finally read some kind of signal out of them.

The premise seems easy enough. The Megasquirt additional knock circuitry should work if I'm interpreting it correctly. To my eye, it basically reads a signal and when any portion of the signal exceeds a threshold value (tuneable by the circuit), it triggers a pulse from a timer circuit to the MS processor. The trick is knowing what signal the sensor outputs so you can determine the threshold value for the trigger. A GM one wire might be a 1-5V kind of signal (total guess, probably wrong), and the Hemi might have more like a 0-1V output for all I know. An amplifier in line might be all that's needed to make the signal easier for the circuit to see. Hopefully the scope will be sensitive enough to catch a pulse where my analog ohmeter wouldn't. Unfortunately, I still have no idea if my sensor are even good to begin with.
Click to expand...

Awesome! I spoke with the DIY guys about it a while back. Also have this to offer:

ChargerDude70 said:
There are 2 frequencies for the 5.7 and 6.4 Knock Sensors(part# 05033316aa). 1 is 5.9kHZ and the other is 13.72kHz. The frequency used depends on the calibration. Both these are the Center frequency. Hope this helps someone in the future.
Click to expand...

And my notes from when I spoke to Matt @ DIY on the subject:

Uhcoog1 said:
I just called Matt at DIY auto tune.

He said:
The knock module board is an $85 part
Labor is $75/hour, minimum of 1/2 an hour (said it would take no more than 1 hour to do at the MOST)
*I'm guessing it wouldn't be as much to have it added at the time of building the box

He's not sure if the hemi sensor is an untuned or tuned knock sensor.

I would have to set the knock module for the frequency. Apparently there are a number of calculators you can use to estimate the frequency, but the 'right' way would be to record the readings and play them back through a spectrum analyzer.

He also mentioned to first try the fundamental frequency, and if that didn't work, to try the 2nd. If you aren't getting feedback, you aren't on the correct frequency.
Click to expand...

Anyway, that's all I've got. Let me know what you figure out!
 
Did you get any insight on the wiring? I'm still not really sure how to hook up the sensors for testing to begin with. I've tried every combination of pin to pin and ground (metal body of the sensor in this case) with no readings. Don't know if I just had the scale wrong or if the sensors are really toast. Pretty sure I left one on the block before it got hot tanked, so guessing that one's probably done for. Other one I took off and set aside, but neither gives me any kind of noticeable feedback. Will see about "borrowing" my parents' RAM for some diagnosis as well, but if you've heard anything I'd appreciate the info.
 
Ok i am starting out fresh and needing help i am learning as i go here. i have an 04 5.7 that Im wanting to put in my 71 challenger i am planning on running a 6.1 intake manifold with the adapter plates i would like to run an srt max cam from inertia motorsports and a set of tti headers other than that all stock. which stand alone option would be the best for my application
 
1qwikScamp said:
Ok i am starting out fresh and needing help i am learning as i go here. i have an 04 5.7 that Im wanting to put in my 71 challenger i am planning on running a 6.1 intake manifold with the adapter plates i would like to run an srt max cam from inertia motorsports and a set of tti headers other than that all stock. which stand alone option would be the best for my application
Click to expand...
Find some Eagle heads and skip the adapters. IMO you also want to use the newer coils to go oe ecu.
 
i planned on using the 06 up coils so i wouldnt have all the criss cross plug wires. so you recommend the oe ecu? over the others for my application?
 
OE since you said you want to keep it basically stock. Call Chris at Modern Muscle.
 
Ok, this has peaked my interest. Can't his, or MS3 be useable with the stock 6.1 or 6.4 intake system? In other words, can I do away with the Drive-By-Wire which I'd prefer not to use. In other words, a plug and play?
I realize that this was probably covered earlier in this posts.
 
Ok, this has peaked my interest. Can't his, or MS3 be useable with the stock 6.1 or 6.4 intake system? In other words, can I do away with the Drive-By-Wire which I'd prefer not to use. In other words, a plug and play?
I realize that this was probably covered earlier in this posts, but I'm kind of slow at times.
 
72BBSwinger said:
Yes but you need one of these
Click to expand...

Thanks, but if you'd explain what I'm looking at please. It appears that you've answered my question, but I need to understand more on this. I really don't want to go to something like the FAST throttle body system. Guess that's why I'm reading all this. I've got some elementary knowledge on this, not like many of you have. I'm just learning.
 
That is a cable drive TB bolted to my stock 6.1 intake. Mine is a 92mm and will require the intake to be hogged out some, but they also make an 80mm version that do not. The FAST TB is an LS Chevy version with an adapter and the throttle bell crank on the passenger side which IMO is goofy.
 
Up until this thread the best I had found was hemitronix. Now it looks like the MS3 box or lxmodguy might be a good solution for a turbo charged 5.7 in an A body.
 
72BBSwinger said:
That is a cable drive TB bolted to my stock 6.1 intake. Mine is a 92mm and will require the intake to be hogged out some, but they also make an 80mm version that do not. The FAST TB is an LS Chevy version with an adapter and the throttle bell crank on the passenger side which IMO is goofy.
Click to expand...

Makes sense and this is what I'll be doing when we get to this point. Thanks for the help.

Bill
 
It seems as there is better throttle response. There always seems like there is a lag there, something like a turbo lag. Also, more control with the gas pedal. Also, not having to have to use a special throttle pedal. Maybe it's my imagination, but that's just me.
 
Modern Muscle said:
Why do you not want the Drive by Wire?
Click to expand...

I know that you've done a lot of these swaps, so I could be convinced otherwise. Next year when we get around to ACTUALLY putting one of these monsters in my little Valiant, I could use all the help and advise I can get. Also, question: Does the 6.1 have forged internals?

Thanks
 
hemisedan said:
I know that you've done a lot of these swaps, so I could be convinced otherwise. Next year when we get around to ACTUALLY putting one of these monsters in my little Valiant, I could use all the help and advise I can get. Also, question: Does the 6.1 have forged internals?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Forged crank only
 
Any more talk about drop in electronics/computer for this hemi in a bodies? What are guys doing when they build a 5.7 into a 392 or whatever, mixing parts as in large intakes, SRT cam, eliminating the MDS, I'm still investigating all this stuff and ideas, as I originally thought the way to go was 6.4 crate motor, but I'd like to have a full forged bottom end. I've always over built bottom ends, for insurance and can't understand, other than cost, why Mopar doesn't forge the rods and pistons, beings as they did do a forged crank. Just curious.
 
hemisedan said:
It seems as there is better throttle response. There always seems like there is a lag there, something like a turbo lag. Also, more control with the gas pedal. Also, not having to have to use a special throttle pedal. Maybe it's my imagination, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

Or you could go with a carb? LOL!!

But seriously..fwiw I can dig where your coming from...to be a cable operated throttle is infinitely preferable.
 
FYI most cable operated pedals go into the 03 Ram box where it makes it into a signal. The only way your going to make it full cable operated is with a stand alone. But assume you know that since your posting in the stand alone forum.

Riddler
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top