Starter Disengaging Issue

[carbuff]

I am getting close to getting my restored 1965 Dodge Dart GT on the road. I have had the engine running; but am having trouble with the starter not disengaging once the engine starts. I have tried a new key switch, two new starter relays, and two new starters. It engages fine and turns the engine over. It seems like voltage is going to the solenoid when key is in start position and releasing when the key goes back to on position; but I do want to check that more to confirm that.

I put all new wiring harnesses on that had all the correct connectors for attachment to the key switch, attached wires on the relay as they were before teardown (confirmed by original pics taken). Of course, there are two wires going to the starter; one from battery and a red wire I am sure originates from the relay.

This has been extremely frustrating; any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[halifaxhops]

Had a starter solenoid hang up once. next time it happens tap the starter with a hammer. If it disengages the solenoid needs to prob be lubed again.
To rule out the relay jump the solenoid on the starter itself and see if it disengages. If it does then it is electrical somewhere. Hope this helps.

 

[carbuff]

Lube the solenoid??

 

[halifaxhops]

Sometimes they corrode internally and hang up.

 

[carbuff]

I have tried two new starters

 

[halifaxhops]

OK Then see if it is the starter relay the new ones suck. Take the wire that goes to the starter off and hit it with voltage it should crank. Voltage off it will stop. Then check to see if the terminal on the starter relay is getting voltage after you release the key. If it does you have further trouble shooting to do IE make sure the starter power from the switch goes off. Then prob the Relay. If so try to find a older one say 90's and back or nos. But NOS does not mean it is good either.

 

[grjammer]

If all electrical checks out, you may have insufficient backlash on the gear. No adjustment is available on Mopars though. You have to slightly modify mounting to relieve binding if you have replaced the flywheel or torque convertor.

 

[halifaxhops]

true is it electrically running or just not dis engaging?

 

[Dave999]

had this with a mini starter that had the wrong pinion
fixed by using a starter shim to move it forward 1/8 inch

you may not need to, remember a standard install usually uses a bellhousing shim/seal
it is really thin. BUT that may be just enough to stop the teeth hanging onto the ring gear

i.e without this shim/seal your starter is further back than standard. with it, it is in the correct place. if it still doesn't work then maybe my first suggestion will


1968-74 Mopar Starter Dust Shield | eBay UK

two types, one for standard like this, and you can either use this, and bodge it on, or get a denso specific one

 

[carbuff]

A shim at starter mounting resulting in less gear engagement? Worth a try if the electronics is ok.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

To see if its mechanical? Disconnect the large battery cable to the starter . Loosen the starter . Apply power to the smaller wire this should activate the solenoid. With the solenoid pushing the teeth back engaging the torque converter tighten the starter. Go on and off with the small wire you should here it go into and out of the torque converter teeth.

 

[RustyRatRod]

It sounds like something else is wired into the start circuit causing a feedback and keeping the starter engaged. I'd be doing some wire tracing and identifying.

 

[67Dart273]

I am getting close to getting my restored 1965 Dodge Dart GT on the road. I have had the engine running; but am having trouble with the starter not disengaging once the engine starts. I have tried a new key switch, two new starter relays, and two new starters. It engages fine and turns the engine over. It seems like voltage is going to the solenoid when key is in start position and releasing when the key goes back to on position; but I do want to check that more to confirm that.

I put all new wiring harnesses on that had all the correct connectors for attachment to the key switch, attached wires on the relay as they were before teardown (confirmed by original pics taken). Of course, there are two wires going to the starter; one from battery and a red wire I am sure originates from the relay.

This has been extremely frustrating; any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Don't just "think" there is voltage, CHECK it.

Is this an auto? An auto, having the neutral start switch, will drop the start relay out even if the start (yellow) is holding it in somehow. So try pulling the shifter into drive and see if the starter drops out


Get a meter or 12V test lamp, and "rig" it with a clip lead to the solenoid terminal on the starter relay. That is the "square" looking one. Get the light/ meter where you can see it, and twist the key. You will know immediately if that is happening.

Another suspect is, have you or anyone done any wiring mods? Sometimes people incorrectly get the brown coil bypass circuit swapped with the yellow "start" circuit. Using either in place of the other will cause a backfeed situation.

An example of how this happens is the INCORRECT electronic ignition diagrams out there. Some show the bypass circuit as "yellow start." Wiring in this way causes the coil power to backfeed to the start relay, through the ballast, and will tend to engage it or hold it in

This is an example of one of the INCORRECT diagrams floating around the www

What is shown as the yellow wire connectio at the bottom of the diagram is WRONG. This should be the (normally brown) coming from the IGN2 terminal of the key switch

 

[Bewy]

Connect a DVM, one wire to the sol wire at the start relay, other lead to ground. Start the engine while watching the DVM. Volts should drop to zero when you release the key. If it does, then starter is faulty electrically or mechanically. If you still read volts, then something electrical in the relay, wiring, ign sw etc.

Be careful with shimming. Too little tooth engagement can wipe out gear teeth....

 

[Dave999]

A shim at starter mounting resulting in less gear engagement? Worth a try if the electronics is ok.

yeah its the equivelent of putting washers between the starter and the bell housing

But do not do that the face of the strater needs support across the contact area it has with the bell housing

hence standard shim/seal very very thin and flat but covers the full face of the mounting
or a fatter shim that you can buy from mancini et al

or make one ..C shaped flat bit of ally with 2 holes

made one the thickness of the skirt on this pinion to get this pinion to work
Hi Torque Starter Motors > Denso Spare Pinions & Parts - 9T 25mm Diameter Pinion Kit - Auto Electric Supplies Website

when i could not find one configured with a lead in, and a low skirt like this.
teeth on the first go back towards the diff 6 mm further than the teeth on the one below due to no "lead in"

Hi Torque Starter Motors > Denso Spare Pinions & Parts - 9T 29mm Diameter Short Pinion Kit - Auto Electric Supplies Website


i needed 25mm 9 tooth and they don't do a 25mm 9 tooth in the same physical configuration as the 29 mm one i list second..

(well a place in california does, but i have had zero success in extracting one from them, insisted i buy one from a place in NZ who are their only Ex US distributor, who then say it won't work, like i'm some kind of idiot who has done no research, a picture of the money wasted on research below ... But this is my problem not yours.)

unless you have a very specific set up you will be using a bigger pinion that is more common to US mopars 35 or 37 mm depending on how it is measured, and it should be configured like the 29 mm one i list i.e has a nose on the pinion

you can get a lot of pinions for the denso starter...
Hi Torque Starter Motors > Denso Spare Pinions & Parts - Auto Electric Supplies Website

Dave

 

[carbuff]

You are all are going to laugh at me! I pulled up the engine compartment wiring diagram from the service manual and traced all my connections and wires. Everything looked good except for one wire. Rather than the wire coming from the alternator thru the voltage regulator going to the bulkhead; I had it connected at the same location on the starter relay that goes to the starter solenoid. Therefore the solenoid continued to see voltage after the car started and when the key returned to the on position. This also explains why my alternator gage wasn’t working and why I have blown a couple starter relays. OMG I will post after trying things out again; been busy on other things.

 

[67Dart273]

You are all are going to laugh at me! I pulled up the engine compartment wiring diagram from the service manual and traced all my connections and wires. Everything looked good except for one wire. Rather than the wire coming from the alternator thru the voltage regulator going to the bulkhead; I had it connected at the same location on the starter relay that goes to the starter solenoid. Therefore the solenoid continued to see voltage after the car started and when the key returned to the on position. This also explains why my alternator gage wasn’t working and why I have blown a couple starter relays. OMG I will post after trying things out again; been busy on other things.

I tried to prod you with post 15.

 

[carbuff]

I checked it going on and off with key on start and on position. The problem was I was doing that test with the coil unhooked so the engine wouldn’t try to start. Duhhh!