Gadabout
Well-Known Member
The old one, probably 1960, has bad brushes. Ordered a new starter that indicated it would fit a '60, but when trying to install it, the bolt holes match up, but the pinion gear does not reach the flywheel. Any ideas?
Starter motor question
- Thread starter Gadabout
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Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
Hmmm... Why does it have the terminals labelled incorrectly?
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
I should know the answer to this, but I'm old and forgetful. 1960 slant sixes had a different starter if I'm not mistaken. @slantsixdan will know the full and correct answer
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
1960 used a direct-drive starter with a 10 tooth drive gear, not the later gear reduction starter. Canadian ones are different, too- OP doesn't list his location. I think I remember @slantsixdan had a workaround with a different drive gear on the gear reduction starter- I'll see if I can find the thread; or maybe he'll chime in.
BTW, why not just throw some new brushes in the old one? Couple of bucks vs a hundred and change...
BTW, why not just throw some new brushes in the old one? Couple of bucks vs a hundred and change...
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slantsixdan
=..=
Sloppy/ignorant vendor. No, that starter will not work on your '60, or anyone else's '60 or '61. Info you need is in this thread.
Here is your 1960 slant 6 starter.
Looks like an old International H Farm Tractor starter.
Wonder if it might even be a 6 volt starter???
Ebay > is the way....
☆☆☆☆☆
Looks like an old International H Farm Tractor starter.
Wonder if it might even be a 6 volt starter???
Ebay > is the way....
☆☆☆☆☆
Dave999
Well-Known Member
you need one with 9 tooth 25 mm pinion. if you want to use a chrysler denso rayher than rebuilt standard.
Your car uses a combination of ring gear diameter and a crank center to pinion centre dimension that was used only on
60/61 valiants with slant 6
and a decent % of Chrysler Australia cars
and a few Gen II street hemis
the issue is there is no standard application in the denso catalogue for the 25 mm 9 tooth pinion in the form we need it.
hence you can only get them off a few people who custom make them
slantsixdan provides a US link in his linked post to a supplier
otherwise you are limited to a sub standard one from Castle Auto Electrics in Australia
an incorrect one that can only be used with a 5mm spacer to space the starter forward, from WOSP in the UK
or you can try to extract the linked IMI GT 9/25 pinion out of Roadrunner starters in NZ who are a distributor in the southern hemisphere of IMI Hi Torque stuff
i'm getting a response saying yes we will sell you one from both companies but they go silent when they realise i'm not in US/CA or NZ
id personally send that one back
buy a similar one off rockauto rebuilt (1996 5.2 engine)
and swap the pinion
job done for $75-100
not like its a hi comp engine and the now tiny pinion gives the starter internals an easier life
been running a bog standard unbranded rockauto rebuild on a 12:1 compression 6 for last 15 years no issues
Dave
Your car uses a combination of ring gear diameter and a crank center to pinion centre dimension that was used only on
60/61 valiants with slant 6
and a decent % of Chrysler Australia cars
and a few Gen II street hemis
the issue is there is no standard application in the denso catalogue for the 25 mm 9 tooth pinion in the form we need it.
hence you can only get them off a few people who custom make them
slantsixdan provides a US link in his linked post to a supplier
otherwise you are limited to a sub standard one from Castle Auto Electrics in Australia
an incorrect one that can only be used with a 5mm spacer to space the starter forward, from WOSP in the UK
or you can try to extract the linked IMI GT 9/25 pinion out of Roadrunner starters in NZ who are a distributor in the southern hemisphere of IMI Hi Torque stuff
i'm getting a response saying yes we will sell you one from both companies but they go silent when they realise i'm not in US/CA or NZ
id personally send that one back
buy a similar one off rockauto rebuilt (1996 5.2 engine)
and swap the pinion
job done for $75-100
not like its a hi comp engine and the now tiny pinion gives the starter internals an easier life
been running a bog standard unbranded rockauto rebuild on a 12:1 compression 6 for last 15 years no issues
Dave
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Find an alternator/generator/starter rebuilder in your area and take it to them. I had an early 50's Buick starter redone and it worked perfectly.
slantsixdan
=..=
Nope. Wrong item. Won't bolt on, and won't fit the space (exhaust manifold is in the way).
With all due respect: the OP already searched without really knowing what they were looking for/at, and got the wrong starter they got, by going "Oh, hey, here's a seller on the internet who sez it'll fit". Doing the same thing again is going to have the same result again, even though this time someone else searched without really knowing what they were looking for/at.
What would make you wonder that? 6v electrics were history on American cars years before the Valiant started to be engineered.
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slantsixdan
=..=
…not quite. If you do this, you need to add a starter relay. If you just bung the car's starter-control wire onto the small terminal of the starter, you'll burn up your ignition switch and a bunch of wiring. Probably a big bunch, given how little circuit protection the '60-'61 cars have (and there's no fusible link or other whole-car protection on cars built before the phase-in in '63-'65, so a single overload can very fast and easily turn into a big electrical fire).
Dave999
Well-Known Member
ahh no relay....! yes that would be a problem
This is not just a problem isolated to the 60 and 61 slant sixes. Matt and I has an original, unmolested 68 Dodge D100 with a 318 and a 904. He put a starter on it. He got a Dakota mini starter. Did the same thing as what the op here has experienced. The starter would not engage the flywheel. After trying two more, he called me. I explained to him that for some reason some people were having that issue.....some even right on this forum. I theorize that maybe there's a difference between manual and automatic transmission starters and the industry in its infinite wisdom just latched onto one and made it the industry standard, so they don't work for everything. That's just a guess, and I don't know if it's right or not, but I know lots of people have had this same issue when changing to the small lighter starters.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
well a 318 with a 904 in australia uses a 9 tooth 25 mm pinion
OR
a 10 tooth 27 mm pinion that is moved out by 1 MM in the starter snout.
i.e the starters are interchangeable and both work in the same spot
but hey you can argue this one for hours even though you have tried it done it and got the medal....
one is a heavy duty version of the other
But their 727 with a 360 in front, uses the 35 mm pinion the US knows and loves.... the converters ring gears and 727 was imported
and they have slants that can't use that starter or the two above, and some that can depending on bell and ring gear.
South africa picked from the south american and australian parts bins so its a bit more confused
one could say its a bit of a mine field... especially as the workshop manual just references the bosch or prestolite part number for the strater, which is often an Australia specific number and does not mention any dimension apart from the throw/depth of the starter pinion....
an awful lot of frustrating "fun" can be had when someone mixes and matches between continents.
rule of thumb right hand drive bellhousing 25mm 9 tooth pinion denso is the first one to try after you fail to get a 35 mm one to work
sounds like certain tucks can be added to the "oddball" list
truck motor car trans truck flywheel or converter?
Dave
OR
a 10 tooth 27 mm pinion that is moved out by 1 MM in the starter snout.
i.e the starters are interchangeable and both work in the same spot
but hey you can argue this one for hours even though you have tried it done it and got the medal....
one is a heavy duty version of the otherBut their 727 with a 360 in front, uses the 35 mm pinion the US knows and loves.... the converters ring gears and 727 was imported
and they have slants that can't use that starter or the two above, and some that can depending on bell and ring gear.
South africa picked from the south american and australian parts bins so its a bit more confused
one could say its a bit of a mine field... especially as the workshop manual just references the bosch or prestolite part number for the strater, which is often an Australia specific number and does not mention any dimension apart from the throw/depth of the starter pinion....
an awful lot of frustrating "fun" can be had when someone mixes and matches between continents.
rule of thumb right hand drive bellhousing 25mm 9 tooth pinion denso is the first one to try after you fail to get a 35 mm one to work
sounds like certain tucks can be added to the "oddball" list
truck motor car trans truck flywheel or converter?
Dave
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Gadabout
Well-Known Member
Thank you all again for your exceptional knowledge and experience. I went through the conversion chart for Speedway Motors and spent $400 on a starter. The bolt holes lined up perfectly, but the Bendix would not reach the flywheel.
Rick at Show-n-Go Automotive here in El Paso went through his Rolodex and found someone who would rebuild it, which they did, got the wiring exactly right. Rick kindly took the time to explain to me the unique features of this vintage starter, and was something about not having a solenoid and having some vintage electrical switches that wired into the park mode on the transmission. Cost: $65 plus install.
that's a wonderful end to the saga.
and only $65? that's a deal at twice the price!
buy good guy rick a few rounds for that one.
slantsixdan
=..=
Alright, fess up: how does your time machine work?
slantsixdan
=..=
Some of those—slant-6s, too—got a Chrysler-built direct-drive starter (also 9-tooth, also 25mm, also incompatible with the gear-reduction starters)
slantsixdan
=..=
…or the US-type 10-tooth, 33-mm pinion. It depends on production date.
33mm.
The starters in Australia are:
9-tooth/25mm, made early by Auto-Lite (Prestolite) same as the US '60-'61, then by Bosch Australia
10-tooth/27mm, made by Bosch Australia
10-tooth/33mm, made by Chrysler and Bosch Australia.
There are no others.
South African cars got the US or the Australian electrics, including starters, depending on model/production date. There was no South American content.
It isn't, though. None of this has to be guessed at. Carefully examining what's in front of you (instead of just assuming or going "Blargh, it's all so complicated, such a minefield!") is 80 per cent of the job; once that's done you know what you need. From there the hardest thing at this late date is getting good-quality parts.
Nope. There are plenty of RHD Slant-6 and V8 A-bodies with 33mm 10-tooth starters.
Gadabout
Well-Known Member
I got the starter rebuilt for $6o. Installed, works good.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected less blargh in future
less blargh in future
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