Stroker or Not

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spinman_1949

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Ok the 340 and tranny are coming out. Hooked up with a local builder. Good rap. Experience from stock builds to full race.

So the question is. Do I go for a stroker? I am not going to race this car, but nothing wrong with surprising some folks on the street.

So if I go stroker, how about some input.

Can I stay with 3.23 gears? Will I need to beef the 727. How about converter? Like to stay with something under 3000.

The car is for my wife and I to cruise in. A couple trips to LA a year and maybe to Mopar meets. Like to add power brakes. Manual steering is fine. And just maybe at some point AC. It is freekin hot in San Diego !! San Diego !!!

Not concerned with value. Isn't a numbers car so as long as it looks fairly stock I am fine.

And as far as the stroker approach. Kit or create my own? Just want some feedback. The builder will be my sounding board. As far as budget? I can see spending 4 K with tranny work if possible. I may have to bump some.
 
With the stroker you can easily stay with the 3.23 gears. Same with the converter, you wouldn't need a lot of stall, especially if it has a small cam. I probably wouldn't go less than 2500 tho. I would have the trans rebuilt with some good clutches and a good shift kit. All the extra torque can hurt a trans if it doesn't have good firm/quick shifts. As for the budget of 4k, I don't think you could buy a stroker for amount. I could be wrong tho. I haven't really priced them lately.
 
Keep it stock stroke. If you're not racing, why spend the extra money for a stroker? You'll probably stay within your budget with a stock build. JMO
 
How badly you want to surprise people ? Put 226 6 emblems on the car and build a nice 340 , don't need a stroker to have fun
 
Scat cast stroker crank nets out to about $300 more if you are doing a total rebuild to your motor. No need for a forged crank for under 500 HP. The scat cast cranks are fillet radius so they are much stronger than a stock 360 cast crank.

Pistons, rods, bearings, etc is relatively the same stroker or non stroker.

Not many other things you could do to a street motor that would give you the HP/$ numbers as a stroker crank (not counting nitrous). Hardly anything will give you the street HP increase with the drivability.
 
Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?

As others have pointed out the key benefit of a stroker is more torque at a lower RPM. With some Camry's clocking a 6.9 seconds 0-60 make sure your you don't get embarrassed by some 17 year old student on her way to the library in mommies grocery getter.

With a 380-410 cubic inch stroker you should be able to make an honest 400Hp without too much effort and end up with a ride that will light the tires anytime you want.

That's my idea of a nice cruiser.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
spinman1949 said:
Ok the 340 and tranny are coming out. Hooked up with a local builder. Good rap. Experience from stock builds to full race.

So the question is. Do I go for a stroker? I am not going to race this car, but nothing wrong with surprising some folks on the street.

So if I go stroker, how about some input.

Can I stay with 3.23 gears? Will I need to beef the 727. How about converter? Like to stay with something under 3000.

The car is for my wife and I to cruise in. A couple trips to LA a year and maybe to Mopar meets. Like to add power brakes. Manual steering is fine. And just maybe at some point AC. It is freekin hot in San Diego !! San Diego !!!

Not concerned with value. Isn't a numbers car so as long as it looks fairly stock I am fine.

And as far as the stroker approach. Kit or create my own? Just want some feedback. The builder will be my sounding board. As far as budget? I can see spending 4 K with tranny work if possible. I may have to bump some.
Click to expand...
The need to stay with 3.23 gears is all the reason you would need to build a 4" stroke SB,but if your just gonna run street tires then it may not mater as any build will end up in smoke. I've built several 4"stroke SB's for street/strip use and I don't build them for a HP advantage,it's about the low end grunt that makes a quick street car. It's hard to overcam a 4" sb and cams in the 250'[email protected] are considered torque grinds to me.
 
autoxcuda said:
Scat cast stroker crank nets out to about $300 more if you are doing a total rebuild to your motor. No need for a forged crank for under 500 HP. The scat cast cranks are fillet radius so they are much stronger than a stock 360 cast crank.

Pistons, rods, bearings, etc is relatively the same stroker or non stroker.

Not many other things you could do to a street motor that would give you the HP/$ numbers as a stroker crank (not counting nitrous). Hardly anything will give you the street HP increase with the drivability.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I agree that the Scat crank is stronger than a stock 360 crank,there are other things to consider than the fillet radius when figuring the strength of a crank. That said the last Scat cast 4" crank I ran lived 8 years and lots of passes before it broke in 3pcs and made a big mess. I've run stock 360 cranks many more laps at higher rpms and not seen many failures.
 
Stroke it, especially if sticking with 3.23,
 
I'm finishing up another 408 stroker and if you only heard this engine rev you would never build "just" a 340!
Only 475HP before tuning, 507TQ!! And idles at 900rpm with 12.5" vacuum. No 340 or 360 can pull a 3.23 gear like a stroker.
For budget street stuff, strokers are THE way to go IMO.
 

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goldmember said:
I'm not sure I agree that the Scat crank is stronger than a stock 360 crank,there are other things to consider than the fillet radius when figuring the strength of a crank. That said the last Scat cast 4" crank I ran lived 8 years and lots of passes before it broke in 3pcs and made a big mess. I've run stock 360 cranks many more laps at higher rpms and not seen many failures.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll buy that. Both had failures, but in your observation to be less with stock cast cranks.

But do you think a Scat cast crank 4" stroke in the context of a street car with street tires and under 500 HP will live a very very long life? Caparable to a stock crank that should live forever if maintained and installed correctly.
 
OU8

Not gonna give ya the benefit of the 12. LOL !!!

So what am I looking at here? Street motor? What is the budget for a build like this?

Can you offer some specs on crank, pistons, rods, heads, etc?

That is some serious power for sure.

I must admit that the thought of a nice idle and good vacuum is what I would be looking for.
 
When I built my 340 I put all the info in to get the compression and with everything equal the 4" arm jumped my compression fron 10.25:1 or so to around 13:1 and that was way to much for me as I want to run pump gas.So that is something to consider also.
 
I totally agree with going with a stroker if you want a nice docile street car that'll run fantastic with 3.23 gears and a lower stall converter. When I first built my Cuda I did up a nice healthy 360 and it ran great with 4:10's but man they sure sucked if you wanted to do 60 or more down the hwy. Built a mild 408 for it last year and put 3.55's in it and it runs a lot stronger (easily a 1/2 second quicker than the 360 was with 4:10's), can easily run 75 down the hwy. if I want too and gets nearly double the fuel mileage. I know more cubes usually hurt fuel mileage but if you stay on the mild side on the cam (mine's a small solid that's 240 at .050 and .518 lift on a 108 lca) converter and gears it can do ok. The only drawback with a stroker is heads. Strokers need to breath. You can make X or J heads work but your better off going with a set of prepped RHS like Brian OU812 sells, or a decent set of properly prepped aluminum heads.
 
mopar410 said:
When I built my 340 I put all the info in to get the compression and with everything equal the 4" arm jumped my compression fron 10.25:1 or so to around 13:1 and that was way to much for my as I want to run pump gas.So that is something to consider also.
Click to expand...

You just gotta pick the right pistons to compliment the head chamber volume. I had no trouble building my 408 with 9.8 to 1 compression with 64 cc heads.
 
fishy68 said:
You just gotta pick the right pistons to compliment the head chamber volume. I had no trouble building my 408 with 9.8 to 1 compression with 64 cc heads.
Click to expand...
Yeah the piston I used in the chart were kb243 for a 3.31 stroke and stick up alittle with 6cc valve relieves.I just changed the stroke to see what it would be and it jumped it up alot.I was just throwing that out as a possible concern.The easiest way is to buy a xx:1 ratio kit,but I also heard you can save money by buying the parts seperatly.
 
mopar410 said:
Yeah the piston I used in the chart were kb243 for a 3.31 stroke and stick up alittle with 6cc valve relieves.I just changed the stroke to see what it would be and it jumped it up alot.I was just throwing that out as a possible concern.The easiest way is to buy a xx:1 ratio kit,but I also heard you can save money by buying the parts seperatly.
Click to expand...

I thought maybe that's what you were meaning. I'm not familiar with the KB243's but I'm surprised they didn't stick out a whole bunch being their for a 3.31 stroke. Yeah if you shop around you can sometimes find a good deal on parts seperately. That's how I did mine. Took longer than just picking out a kit but I saved a couple hundred bucks and got just what I wanted.
 
fishy68 said:
I thought maybe that's what you were meaning. I'm not familiar with the KB243's but I'm surprised they didn't stick out a whole bunch being their for a 3.31 stroke. Yeah if you shop around you can sometimes find a good deal on parts seperately. That's how I did mine. Took longer than just picking out a kit but I saved a couple hundred bucks and got just what I wanted.
Click to expand...
Sorry,I only used the surface area volume on both charts so the calculator read it as the piston would travel down further and come back up with more air pressure to give it that much more compression.To get under 10:1 the piston would have to be in the hole some(don't want to guess an amount and be misleading).I did my test with 66 cc heads and those pistons were .018 out of the hole.
 
spinman1949 said:
And as far as the stroker approach. Kit or create my own? Just want some feedback. The builder will be my sounding board. As far as budget? I can see spending 4 K with tranny work if possible. I may have to bump some.
Click to expand...

I just dropped my block off at the machine shop yesterday starting my 408 stroker build. I spoke with my builder, and he agreed to give me a good price on parts if I bought them from him. So I brought him a parts list and he's meeting or beating Summit's prices. This gives him a chance to make a little extra on the build.

For example, I gave him a link to this Scat forged rotating assembly.

He is going to buy the crank, rods and pistons as a kit, but he is going to use the bearings and rings that he is comfortable with and has had good experience using. I'm sure your builder would like a chance to make a little extra money.

I think you might be a little low on your budget. I was thinking around $7k seems to be the average for a good solid stroker build. Mine is going to be closer to $10k with heads, roller cam and valve train, TTIs, Mod Man intake and carbs, plus other misc little parts that should be replaced. **** adds up fast.
 
Brian,

Machining is less here is CA. So that will help a bit. I really do not want to spend 7K. So I may have to pass on the stroker. I will let my builder help me decide based on what he finds re the existing engine. Like if the heads are shot, I will likely have to spend for new heads which will likely take the stroker option off the table. He is very good at porting stock heads so if they are good he can port to get respectable flow that can support an modest stroker. My other option is to go for a hotter 340 build and live with a higher stall converter. No I will not have a tire smoker, but quite frankly that is not my goal anyway. Plus fines for exhibition of speed here in CA are extreme. LOL !! Right now this car can break the tires loose, even with all the engine issues it has.
 
spinman1949 said:
Brian,

Machining is less here is CA. So that will help a bit. I really do not want to spend 7K. So I may have to pass on the stroker. I will let my builder help me decide based on what he finds re the existing engine. Like if the heads are shot, I will likely have to spend for new heads which will likely take the stroker option off the table. He is very good at porting stock heads so if they are good he can port to get respectable flow that can support an modest stroker. My other option is to go for a hotter 340 build and live with a higher stall converter. No I will not have a tire smoker, but quite frankly that is not my goal anyway. Plus fines for exhibition of speed here in CA are extreme. LOL !! Right now this car can break the tires loose, even with all the engine issues it has.
Click to expand...

Those $7K figures are with a lot of new stuff external to the short long block.

If you are going to full rebuild with bore, you are going to need pistons anyway. The labor in resizing you old rods is close to new rods in a kit. So the difference in cost is really the crank. Stroker crank is cheaper than a good high stall converter.

Do you have J or X heads now? What intake valve size? You don't have to have ported heads. If you heads need rebuilding, rebuild them. Don't have to buy new ones.

IIRC, Rob Robinson here built a 4" stroker with untouched heads, carter carb, stock exhaust manifolds, comp XE268.
 
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