Strokers run warmer???

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With all your years experience you don't fully grasp how materials affect operating temperatures and performance? Try replacing an aluminum condensor coil with an iron one and tell me how well they perform the same job.

I am able to fully grasp this concept you are the one clutching by two fingers on the edge of the cliff.

The HEADS are not what is ejecting the heat, the RADIATOR is what ejects the heat. The heads are merely absorbing combustion head and transferring that heat INTO the coolant. If the cooling system is not able to radiate that heat, then you've already got your "iron" condenser. And it IS a condenser, and not a "condensor"

Your analogy would work perfect if you were talking about an iron versus aluminum RADIATOR. The radiator is what is getting rid of the heat, not the heads. Regardless of head material, the heat of the engine is still captured "in" the engine.

The heads may affect COMBUSTION temperature because they are more quickly TRANSFERRING heat INTO the coolant, but if that radiator-- is not large enough nor efficient enough to radiate that heat, then the heat will remain within the engine. THAT is what is going to raise coolant temperature.
 
With the radiator as a constant and the air flow and air temp the same, the thermal resitance through the radiator stays absolutely contstant. There has to be more heat flow into the system and then through the radiator and into the air to raise the radiator's temp (and the coolant too). The radiator has not changed but the amount of heat flow has increased.

It's Ohm's law for heat: Rt (thermal resistance of the radiator) is constant (with a given radiator and airflow) and for the temp (the voltage) to rise across that Rt there has to be more heat flow (the current). Draw it out as a bunch of series resistors and lower the value of one resistor (changing the head from iron to AL) and the total heat flow (the current) will increase. The temps (voltages) at the heat flow circuit locations following the lower resistance value (like in the coolant and radiator) WILL rise, because there is more heat flow (current). The radiator by itself cannot increase the temps; it is the increased heat flow.
 
You drain the entire system (engine, radiator, heater core) the best you can. I used water to flush the entire system first then I used compressed air to blow the heater core out first (by itself with hoses still attached to heater core but not hooked to engine. Next I did the same to the radiator same way as heater core but applied duck taper around the bottom to make smaller opening, rag up top opening cap on and tight. Last was engine taped off/blocked off all but water pump opening and blew air through heater hose connection. After that you use a product from Evans coolant that takes the rest of the water out of the system. When that is all done, I poured in Evans coolant and no more worries.
Do you perchance know what is in this coolant? This stuff sounds 'cool'.
 
On each side of the block down near the pan rail you'll find block drain plugs. Pull those plugs (make sure and do both sides) and it'll drain 99% of the coolant out.

Thanks fishy68, I never paid attention to the plugs. I assume that they are threaded plugs.
 
There has to be more heat flow into the system .

This might be a poor choice of words. If there is "more heat flow" then you are suggesting there is MORE HEAT AT THE SOURCE. Has something changed? Is there more "fire in the hole?"

If the "fire" (heat) is the same and there is "more flow" into the cooling system, then WHERE DID THIS HEAT GO previously?

It HAD to go somewhere. Did it go out the exhaust? If not then the engine as a whole had to absorb it radiate it and this is not magic.
 
Thanks fishy68, I never paid attention to the plugs. I assume that they are threaded plugs.

Yes their threaded into the block.

BTW: If it's an older engine with sediment buildup you may find removing the plugs reveals a wall of rust. If so poke a screwdriver/awl/punch etc... through it and break it up and the water will flush the opening out. Make sure to keep your face clear because the coolant comes out pretty fast
 
This might be a poor choice of words. If there is "more heat flow" then you are suggesting there is MORE HEAT AT THE SOURCE. Has something changed? Is there more "fire in the hole?"

If the "fire" (heat) is the same and there is "more flow" into the cooling system, then WHERE DID THIS HEAT GO previously?

It HAD to go somewhere. Did it go out the exhaust? If not then the engine as a whole had to absorb it radiate it and this is not magic.


No more fire in the hole. More fire coming through the material from the hole into the coolant. The heat, in a perfect world, would go 100% out the exhaust. That's the goal of thermal coatings (that block heat transfer) and header wrap.
You seem to keep thinking that in order to be perceived as running hot, more heat has to be developed in the chamber. While that is true in many cases (higher static compression, more friction, higher horsepower, leaner mixes or retarded timing, oxygenated fuels) it is not true in all cases. A block with thinner walls will transfer more heat to the coolant, as will aluminum heads. "Perceived" being the operative word there. Is an engine that shows 205° running hotter than one that shows 180° on the gage? Or is the coolant simply getting more heat transferred into it?
 
Hey, the 360 was a stroker. Does it run warmer too?
 
This might be a poor choice of words. If there is "more heat flow" then you are suggesting there is MORE HEAT AT THE SOURCE. Has something changed? Is there more "fire in the hole?"

If the "fire" (heat) is the same and there is "more flow" into the cooling system, then WHERE DID THIS HEAT GO previously?

It HAD to go somewhere. Did it go out the exhaust? If not then the engine as a whole had to absorb it radiate it and this is not magic.
Not a poor choice of words; it's a reflection of what is really going on. My words 'more heat flow' meams more heat flowing through the cooling system due to the AL heads. So, it's not more heat at the source but a change in where that total heat is flowing. And yes, the 3 paths are through the cooling system, and out the exhaust, and out of the engine's surface.

All of the heat transfer from combustion gases to heads is by conduction due to direct contact between the combustion gases and the head surface (duh). (And incidentally, that is why we polish the inside of the combustion chambers and eliminate high spots; the smooth surface has less total surface area than a rougher cast surface, and the head transfer to the heads is lower due to lower surface area, and thus head surface temps and the tendency to detonate both go down.) With the iron heads there is less heat flow through the heads and into the cooling system and more out of the exhaust (and perhaps a bit more from the surfaces), because the iron heads' interior surface temp is higher due to its higher thermal resistance; this higher surface temp prevents as much heat transfer from the combustion gases. The AL heads' can aborb more heat from the hot combustion gases due to their lower surface temp.

By far the biggest outflow of combustion heat is via the exhaust so a change in heat flow through the cooling system will not be easily measured in exhaust temps since the change in total exhaust heat content, and thus the exhaust temp change, will be tiny compared to the exhaust total heat flow. But the changes in cooling system temp are easy to see due to that last large series resistor in the heat flow path that you correctly ID'd, and which is called the radiator. For same radiator with the same airflow, fan shrouds, etc. (i.e., the 'all other things being equal' situation), any increase in coolant temps reflects an increase in heat flow through the cooling system. This is somewhat intuitive to all gearheads because we all know that as we load the engine more, the coolant temp increases, right?

I encourage you to look at it just like an electical circuit since you are so good at the electrical stuff. It won't lead you wrong; the analogy between DC electrical flow and heat flow is exact; the same Ohm's law relationships apply. We just don't have the equivalent of an ohmmeter and a current meter to measure thermal resistance and heat flow directly; we only have a 'voltmeter', called a temperature guage, and have to derive the other 2 by computation. That is not something one does in a garage, except by inference from a temp guage.

And speaking of outflow of heat via the exhaust, that is where we would like ALL of the heat to go. But the nature of the beast is that the hot combustion gases ARE in contact with the combustion chamber and cylinder and piston surfaces (again, duh), and so we have to have a cooling system to keep those temps in check.

Edit to add: BTW I did not read Moper's post above before writing and posting this; I wrote my post here, then took out the trash and hooked up a trailer and loaded a truck and them came back in for a break and saw and read his post and found the same thing being said. So it is 2 independent analyses...for whatever that may be worth.
 
Hey, the 360 was a stroker. Does it run warmer too?

I am sure it was harder on the cooling system than the 318, but that also depends on how lean it was running etc etc.


if it burns more gas it will take more cooling, right ?
 
I was just making a point that the big three routinely made an engine bigger by stroking an existing engine.

I am sure it was harder on the cooling system than the 318, but that also depends on how lean it was running etc etc.


if it burns more gas it will take more cooling, right ?
 
Yes their threaded into the block.

BTW: If it's an older engine with sediment buildup you may find removing the plugs reveals a wall of rust. If so poke a screwdriver/awl/punch etc... through it and break it up and the water will flush the opening out. Make sure to keep your face clear because the coolant comes out pretty fast

Thanks again for the info Fishy68
 
The 318 is a stroked 273. The 340 is a stroked 318. The 360 is a stroked 340. In stock form they can all use the SAME cooling system. Some of yall just love to argue for the hell of it. If a few of yall are such the experts you think you are, why the hell are you millin around a damned internet forum? Don't you have more important things to do? Worlds to save? Diseases to cure? Civilizations to feed? Geez. Get a life.
 
The 318 is a stroked 273. The 340 is a stroked 318. The 360 is a stroked 340. In stock form they can all use the SAME cooling system. Some of yall just love to argue for the hell of it. If a few of yall are such the experts you think you are, why the hell are you millin around a damned internet forum? Don't you have more important things to do? Worlds to save? Diseases to cure? Civilizations to feed? Geez. Get a life.

Hey rusty, I thought the 318 273 and the 340 had the same stroke.

Now the 225 is a stroked 170 and the 360 is a stroked almost 340
 
Hey rusty, I thought the 318 273 and the 340 had the same stroke.

Now the 225 is a stroked 170 and the 360 is a stroked almost 340

Stroked, bored, honed, screwed, fu%ked. What's the difference?
 
The 318 is a stroked 273. The 340 is a stroked 318. The 360 is a stroked 340. In stock form they can all use the SAME cooling system. Some of yall just love to argue for the hell of it. If a few of yall are such the experts you think you are, why the hell are you millin around a damned internet forum? Don't you have more important things to do? Worlds to save? Diseases to cure? Civilizations to feed? Geez. Get a life.
We prefer to call it an 'educational discussion' LOL.....I would ask who has over 21,000 posts here? Oooops, there I go, pointing out the obvious....Well, we'll all get over it eventually and permanently so no need to blow any more gaskets.
 
We prefer to call it an 'educational discussion' LOL.....I would ask who has over 21,000 posts here? Oooops, there I go, pointing out the obvious....Well, we'll all get over it eventually and permanently so no need to blow any more gaskets.

And then there's the sayin about a hit dog hollerin first......
 
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