Tail light, but no brake or turn signal

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jalake

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My friend informed me that my driver side brake light was out, so I stopped and grabbed some bulbs yesterday after work.

When I removed the old bulb I noticed that both filaments were still intact and that made me a bit concerned. I put in a new bulb and hit the turn signal and got nothing.

I put the old bulb back in and turned on the headlights. Tail light turned on just fine. ...

There's a bit of oxidation in the socket. Could that be causing the issue? Outside of that the other tail lamp and both front parking lights appear to be functional.

Thoughts?
 
If the passenger rear turn indicator works and the front passenger side work, then it is likely in the driver rear socket or wires to that. But it could be in the turn signal switch in the column.

Does the front driver's turn indicator light up at all, even if it lights up but does not blink?
 
If the passenger rear turn indicator works and the front passenger side work, then it is likely in the driver rear socket or wires to that. But it could be in the turn signal switch in the column.

Does the front driver's turn indicator light up at all, even if it lights up but does not blink?

All other lights are working. Dash indicators work, front signals blink when activated. It is just the driver side brake and blink operation that is missing.
 
All other lights are working. Dash indicators work, front signals blink when activated. It is just the driver side brake and blink operation that is missing.

Ah HA.
"Brake and blink"

switch, wiring or socket.

Check the easy stuff first.
I'm assuming this is a car and not a bicycle or somthing? :D

clean and test at the socket.
Check the wires under the carpet at the drivers side kick panel (Test at that connector)
Replace the signal switch. (brake lights pass through it)

That's about the size of it.
 
Roger that. I'll see if I can clean out that socket it bit and hopefully that'll do the trick. Otherwise I'll add it to the list of things to do in the future. Thanks.
 
Not sure if the double '71 housings are the same as the single '70s but I had trouble at different times with the socket losing it's ground and thus losing the lights. On the '70 housings, there is no ground wire to the socket. The socket is crimped onto the housing and is grounded through the housing to the bumper.

I tested it by taking off the lens and holding a jumper wire against the socket beside the bulb and then touched the bumper. Lo and behold, the lamp lit up. I pried up the endges of the socket it a couple spots and scraped both the underside of the socket and the housing and then tapped them back together with a small drift. This worked for a couple months and then I lost my ground again. I did this a couple times on both sides.

I finally fixed it by taking my Dremel and making a small shallow groove in the backside of each socket and soldered a wire to it. I soldered a terminal ring to the other end and ran one of the housing bolts to the bumper through it. Now the socket has a hard wired ground and has given me no trouble for 4 years now. Mine is a daily driver so I was more concerned with safety than factory correctiveness. You can't see the wires even if you try because they are up behind the bumper on top of the housing.
 
Not sure if the double '71 housings are the same as the single '70s but I had trouble at different times with the socket losing it's ground and thus losing the lights. On the '70 housings, there is no ground wire to the socket. The socket is crimped onto the housing and is grounded through the housing to the bumper.

I tested it by taking off the lens and holding a jumper wire against the socket beside the bulb and then touched the bumper. Lo and behold, the lamp lit up. I pried up the endges of the socket it a couple spots and scraped both the underside of the socket and the housing and then tapped them back together with a small drift. This worked for a couple months and then I lost my ground again. I did this a couple times on both sides.

I finally fixed it by taking my Dremel and making a small shallow groove in the backside of each socket and soldered a wire to it. I soldered a terminal ring to the other end and ran one of the housing bolts to the bumper through it. Now the socket has a hard wired ground and has given me no trouble for 4 years now. Mine is a daily driver so I was more concerned with safety than factory correctiveness. You can't see the wires even if you try because they are up behind the bumper on top of the housing.


Been there. :)
I found the same thing with my car.
The housing was grounded but the crimped in socket didn't ground to housing well.
I even tested and found it the same way you did (bumper as a ground) but I fixed it with a drill and a small screw through the actual bulb socket into the housing.
Your way is going to prove to be more long term reliable I think.
 
I vote socket or socket ground too. Been there, done that. Mine was the driver backup light socket.
 
Thanks for all the pointers everyone. I'm going to hit the socket with some contact cleaner and some scotch-brite as soon as I have a chance and see if that will work.

...side question, how do you Arizona folks deal with the emission laws there? Not sure my Dart would cut it as a daily driver there.
 
Thanks for all the pointers everyone. I'm going to hit the socket with some contact cleaner and some scotch-brite as soon as I have a chance and see if that will work.

...side question, how do you Arizona folks deal with the emission laws there? Not sure my Dart would cut it as a daily driver there.

I live in Northern AZ and there are no emissions laws where I am, so don't really know about the rest of the state.
My Brother registered his truck at my address so he wouldn't have to do it. :)

The website www.servicearizona.com has some info that might help you with that.
 
Ahhhh, I see. Looks like the 1967 (for non "collector" cars) and up emissions testing only applies to Phoenix and Tucson metros.
 
Don't daily drive. Too much hassle to even think of having the 1971 emissions stuff all functional. Historic plates. Drive it a couple of times a week when its not too hot out.
 
Seriously. I though CA was bad. You guys have to emission test a '71 in the metro areas??

Yes, but it's almost nothing since there were very little required then.
(well, unless it smokes or runs too rich)
 
Do they do a tail pipe measurement? Can you change carbs manifolds etc as long as egr's and other stuff is in place?
 
A little bit of magical Deoxit D5 and my brake light and turn signal are back in full operating order. Hooray!

Again, thanks for all the advice and input everyone.

-Jerry
 
I know this post is a bit aged, but I'm having the same tail light issue again. I picked up a Dorman "universal" replacement socket that was specified for this car. ... I can seem to find any solid instruction on how to actually replace the socket. I'm sure I could probably disassemble it, but I don't want to screw anything up unwittingly.

Pointers, service manual info, videos, explanations are very much appreciated.

-Jerry
 
I know this post is a bit aged, but I'm having the same tail light issue again. I picked up a Dorman "universal" replacement socket that was specified for this car. ... I can seem to find any solid instruction on how to actually replace the socket. I'm sure I could probably disassemble it, but I don't want to screw anything up unwittingly.

Pointers, service manual info, videos, explanations are very much appreciated.

-Jerry
I've not seen a replacement socket for the type that are crimped into a pot metal housing. I suppose one could whittle in a alternative type of socket. Betcha somebody here has been there done that.
The one time I faced this fault, It was a front park/turn fixture. The guy before me had melted a quarter pound of solder in around. I guess that worked for a while. Anyway... After I cleaned away some solder, I drilled a tiny hole though the crimp/lip and fixture, then put a tiny screw through it. It just bonded the socket to the fixture in a different manner. Seems like a hunert years ago now. No idea why I had such a small screw in my tool box or what/where it might have came from.
I imagine a small pop rivet would work too, so long as the head don't scrub the bulbs globe. File a clearance flat on it first?
 
Now that you mention it, I searched for a socket for 1971 (the year of the car) and not for 1970 (the year of the bumper/tail lights on the car). I am not sure if the one I got (DORMAN 85860) will be quite the same. I'll see if I can fix the ground this weekend. Thanks.
 
Don't daily drive. Too much hassle to even think of having the 1971 emissions stuff all functional. Historic plates. Drive it a couple of times a week when its not too hot out.
I heard something on the radio the other day, that,in 2014, the date for non testing was moved up to the mid 70s.
So you do not need the classic car insurance to bypass testing.

In Arizona. of course
 
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If the passenger rear turn indicator works and the front passenger side work, then it is likely in the driver rear socket or wires to that. But it could be in the turn signal switch in the column.

Does the front driver's turn indicator light up at all, even if it lights up but does not blink?
Correct regarding the turn signal switch...brake lights are wired through two switches, the column and brake light switch mounted at the pedal.
I disassembled my turn signal switch, cleaned the contacts and it worked.
 
I have posted on this problem a few times. The last time was about 18-20 months ago. Long story short: I am pretty good with electrical systems. When I was done putting my 69 Cuda together, I had the same problem. Using a wiring diagram and doing some experimentation, I determined that power for the brake lights and turn signals all went through the turn signal cancelling switch. Here is a little article I wrote about the problem and how to solve it:


After a two and a half year restoration of my 1969 340 4 speed Barracuda, I was ready for a test drive. But wait; I had no turn signals and no brake lights. They worked before the teardown. After hours of testing and looking at wiring diagrams, I finally figured out why my brake and turn signal lights were not working. As it turned out, my Barracuda’s (and many other older Mopars) brake lights go through the turn signal switch and turn signal canceling cam. I ultimately determined that the problem was the cheap Dorman turn signal canceling cam I put in last winter (column out of the car) when I noticed the original one was broken. The Dorman part looked like an exact replacement, so I thought I was OK. Here is what I found out. I hope this can help you should something like this ever come up. First I tested all fuses and the brake light switch. The fuses were fine, and the brake light switch had current flowing through it when the brake pedal was depressed. So it was time to drag out the wiring diagrams. Please note that even if the brake light switch had been bad, that would not have explained the lack of turn signals. The wiring diagrams indicated that current for the brake lights travelled through the turn signal switch. That was a surprise, I had not realized that. So I removed the steering wheel to reveal the white turn signal cancel cam (picture 1). Please note the small brass rivets (with the red wires attached) on the turn signal cancel cam on either side of the cam retaining screw. The one to the left of the screw is hot when the ignition switch is “On”, and the one to the right of the screw is hot when the brake pedal is depressed. To pull the turn signal cancel cam, simply remove the retaining screw (it screws into the turn signal lever) and gently pry up on the turn signal canceling cam. Flip the turn signal cancel cam over and look at the back of it (picture 2). Notice there are two hard wires about one inch long each that are vertical and connected to the plastic cam with brass rivets. Now look at the four round brass electrodes on the top of the turn signal switch (in between the white turn signal cancel cam and the steering shaft). The hard wires on the back of the turn signal cancel cam making connection with those four electrodes (depending on turn signal lever position) is what send current to the lights when installed. Using a hot jump wire, I determined that the upper right hand (UR) electrode on the turn signal switch sent current to right rear tail light, the lower left hand (LL) electrode sent current to right front parking light, the upper left hand (UL) electrode sent current to left front parking light and the lower right (LR) hand electrode sent current to left rear tail light. So when the turn signal lever (that moves the cancelling cam and the hard wires on the back) is flipped up for a right turn, the turn signal cancel cam will be rotated clockwise a bit, and the hard wire that is hot when the ignition is “On” (the one on the left when the turn signal cam is installed as in picture 1) will contact the UR and LL electrodes thereby activating and flashing the front and rear right hand turn signals. The current goes through the turn signal switch first; then through the flasher. Conversely, when the turn signal lever is flipped down for a left turn, the turn signal cancel cam will be rotated counter-clockwise a bit, and the wire that is hot when the ignition is on will contact the UL and LR electrodes thereby activating and flashing the front and rear left hand turn signals. When the turn signal switch is in the neutral position, the other hard wire on the back side of the canceling cam (the one that is hot when the brake pedal is depressed) is making contact with the UR and LR turn signal switch electrode. So when the brake pedal is depressed, current flows to both rear tail lights. So why weren’t my lights working when running current through the above mentioned electrodes activated all appropriate lights and flashers? I eventually noticed that the hard wires on the back of the turn signal cancel cam were flat down against the plastic, so there was no way they were going to make contact with the electrodes on the top of the turn signal switch then the cam was installed. So I simply bent the tips of the wires on the back side of the canceling cam up a bit so they would contact the turn signal switch electrodes, and everything worked fine (see picture 3). Sorry, I did not think to take a before picture, but imagine the wires laying flush against the back of the turn signal cancel cam so that there would have been a gap between the wires and the turn signal switch electrodes. No contact; no current flow. Had I needed to replace the turn signal cam or switch, those tasks are fairly straight forward. However, the main purpose of this article was to explain how the current flows through the turn signal cam and switch and how to diagnose the, “I have no brake lights or turn signals” problem.
Pic 1 Top of TS Switch.JPG
Pic 2 Both.JPG
Pic 3 TS from Side.JPG
 
I'm not totally familiar with every model Darts rear lighting set up. So I can only reference a post above that mentions single and double rear fixtures. Doubles could very well have single filament ( 1156 ) bulbs in all, or 1156 in some, 1157 in others. Anyway... Those separate brake and turn fixtures do not translate well to, or diagnose the same as, those more common single fixture, double filament ( 1157 ) examples posted here.
Also mentioned above, a different bumper/rear lighting or something not OEM, on this Dart/example to more complicate things. Without knowing exactly how many fixtures, how many wires of what color(s) to each... who knows?
 
Quick follow up on this, finally just took the Dart into the shop yesterday. Turns out the problem was 2 broken wires. One was just behind the tail light assembly. The other was further back in the harness. 2.5 hrs of labor to diagnose and repair. I'm totally ok with that. I can now slow, stop, and turn left without feeling like I'm being a total jerk. :)
 
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