Tearing down the 414 stroker

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64physhy

64physhy

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As many of you know, I flattened the cam and destroyed 3 lifters on my stroker a while back. I finally tore it down today, and this is what I found (no pics, I don't think you'd be able to see anything on them).
1.) 2 of the cam bearings are really bad, and 2 others have minor scoring.
2.) 2 of the main bearings have some scoring. Part of the bearing material transferred to the crank main on one of them.
3.) only 1 of the rod bearings showed any wear, it had a score right through the center, but no damage to the crank.
4.) Don't know if this is normal or not, but the piston skirts are rubbing the cylinder walls.
5.) sealant-probably from the oil pan gasket- was clogging a few holes in the oil pick-up tube.

So could this whole thing be caused from lack of oil because of the partially clogged oil pick-up?

I'm definitely going to replace all the bearings and thoroughly clean everything.

What else do I need to do?
 
64physhy said:
As many of you know, I flattened the cam and destroyed 3 lifters on my stroker a while back. I finally tore it down today, and this is what I found (no pics, I don't think you'd be able to see anything on them).
1.) 2 of the cam bearings are really bad, and 2 others have minor scoring.
2.) 2 of the main bearings have some scoring. Part of the bearing material transferred to the crank main on one of them.
3.) only 1 of the rod bearings showed any wear, it had a score right through the center, but no damage to the crank.
4.) Don't know if this is normal or not, but the piston skirts are rubbing the cylinder walls.
5.) sealant-probably from the oil pan gasket- was clogging a few holes in the oil pick-up tube.

So could this whole thing be caused from lack of oil because of the partially clogged oil pick-up?

I'm definitely going to replace all the bearings and thoroughly clean everything.

What else do I need to do?
Click to expand...
No..... Save the cash up and buy a hyd roller set up.
 
It'll be EVERYWHERE...the block will need a hot tank and the piston skirts will have metal in them.
 
w2360Duster said:
No..... Save the cash up and buy a hyd roller set up.
Click to expand...

I'm really contemplating a hyd roller set-up. The thing is, FT cams have worked for decades just fine, so why all of the sudden is everyone pushing the rollers so much? I know there's some extra insurance with them, but with a cam and the tappets, that's more than twice the cost of a FT. The cam I was using had a fast ramp rate, I wouldn't use them again.
 
I was just cleaning stuff up, and found 3 nicks on one of the pistons. I have no idea what it could be from, the rings didn't have any pieces missing, and there was no damage to the valves. The nicks are tiny, but 2 are on the edge.
 
Bring the engine down to us, we'll reassemble it, dyno it with a FT cam, and you'll at least have a tuned and properly broke in engine that you can be happy with for a long time.

It sounds like maybe you had some trash go through it, maybe from not being cleaned well enough.
Good luck with it either way!!
Brian
 
They have a piston skirt knurler [old school] it'll fix minor stuff like that.
auto power machine has one still.

as for roller, don't waste $900+ for only an average 10 hp over a similar spec'd fast rate [not hughes]
and hell..if you do go roller, skip the weak suck hyd roller and go solid roller.jmo

check with EngleRacingCams or Jonescams,btw have head flow #'s ready when calling jones cams
 
ou812 said:
Bring the engine down to us, we'll reassemble it, dyno it with a FT cam, and you'll at least have a tuned and properly broke in engine that you can be happy with for a long time.

It sounds like maybe you had some trash go through it, maybe from not being cleaned well enough.
Good luck with it either way!!
Brian
Click to expand...

1wild&crazyguy said:
They have a piston skirt knurler [old school] it'll fix minor stuff like that.
auto power machine has one still.

as for roller, don't waste $900+ for only an average 10 hp over a similar spec'd fast rate [not hughes]
and hell..if you do go roller, skip the weak suck hyd roller and go solid roller.jmo

check with EngleRacingCams or Jonescams,btw have head flow #'s ready when calling jones cams
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. The thing with solid rollers is that I haven't seen any solid roller lifters with pushrod oiling, which I need since I'm running magnum heads. I might break down and take it to Brian, even though I really can't afford it, which is why I'm trying to do it myself. As for the flow numbers, a lot of people are skeptical of the numbers that Hughes claims for the work I have done on mine. I won't change the heads because I have too much into them. I know there are better choices, but they are what I have, so I'm sticking with them. I've heard lots of good things about Engle cams, but haven't heard of Jones. Is that the one you were telling me about the other night?
 
64physhy said:
I'm really contemplating a hyd roller set-up. The thing is, FT cams have worked for decades just fine, so why all of the sudden is everyone pushing the rollers so much? I know there's some extra insurance with them, but with a cam and the tappets, that's more than twice the cost of a FT. The cam I was using had a fast ramp rate, I wouldn't use them again.
Click to expand...


Plus you were using those 1.65 ratio rockers. Seems like you are stuck with those.

I would get a custom cam FT grounded. Comp Cams can do it. On Speedtalk there is this guy Mike Jones Cams, Camking he goes by on talk, I got a cam grounded by him, gave the motor a better idle than Comps HE 268 and revved higher, very pleased with it.

Camking can even tell you about how many miles the cam should last, a few races, ha ha, 20,000 miles, 50,000 miles, etc.

Price isn't bad, like $2?? but reground cams on your good core if you got one are only $125 plus shipping.

That what I would do with that 1.65 rockers, have some place custom grind you a FT cam.
 
64physhy said:
Thanks for the info. The thing with solid rollers is that I haven't seen any solid roller lifters with pushrod oiling, which I need since I'm running magnum heads. I might break down and take it to Brian, even though I really can't afford it, which is why I'm trying to do it myself. As for the flow numbers, a lot of people are skeptical of the numbers that Hughes claims for the work I have done on mine. I won't change the heads because I have too much into them. I know there are better choices, but they are what I have, so I'm sticking with them. I've heard lots of good things about Engle cams, but haven't heard of Jones. Is that the one you were telling me about the other night?
Click to expand...

I don't have much input about the damage, BUT...it seems as though something went through the motor...

There is nothing wrong with a QUALITY hydraulic FT cam and lifters. Just be CAREFUL on break in and I would warm it the first time on break in oil as well as the assembly lube on the lobes AND lifters. Call Tim @ Bullet for a grind for YOUR combo. The Comp Cam that Brian used for his Car Craft 410 seems like a real good piece as well.

Regarding the heads...Those EQ's flow right with RHS heads. I have flowed both back-to-back and actually the EQ's had better numbers below .450" and were dead on the RHS's above that. It will run REAL GOOD with those heads, believe me!
 
64physhy said:
Didn't you say that last time? It's never cheaper to keep doing it over and over....I'm willing to help you out some, but you need to help yourself out first.
I'm sure I can make a FT cam work and even though it will cost for my time plus the dyno, you'll know it's right, and it will be tuned...I've never had a customer leave complaining the dyno session was a waste....

For what the hyd. roller setup will cost (pushrods, lifters, cam and possibly bronze drive)you can dyno the thing and break the cam it correctly.
So your only paying for our cleaning/assembly...IMO it's cheaper than doing this again!!

Brian
Click to expand...
 
ou812 said:
Didn't you say that last time? It's never cheaper to keep doing it over and over....I'm willing to help you out some, but you need to help yourself out first.
I'm sure I can make a FT cam work and even though it will cost for my time plus the dyno, you'll know it's right, and it will be tuned...I've never had a customer leave complaining the dyno session was a waste....

For what the hyd. roller setup will cost (pushrods, lifters, cam and possibly bronze drive)you can dyno the thing and break the cam it correctly.
So your only paying for our cleaning/assembly...IMO it's cheaper than doing this again!!

Brian
Click to expand...
You're right. Louis told me to go to you too. I sent you a PM.
 
I’m soooo sorry for your loss. Having been there myself 2 years ago, all I can say is go roller. Yes it cost more initially, but it is WAY cheaper than rebuilding the engine again…not to mention more power. I went the soild roller route with mine…I will NEVER use another flat tappet cam again, JMHO.
 
I dropped it off at Brian's shop (IMM Engines). Helluva long drive, but I think it will be worth it. He's going to check everything over and flow the heads to help make a determination on what cam to go with, but it will most likely be FT. Nothing wrong with rollers, but FT has worked for decades.
 
8) Good move, this way no surprises.

I heard those solid rollers don't last more than a few thousand miles on the street. The roller pins get all bang up form the lash
 
Brian is building it similar to his Carcraft magazine build. Mine has a few more cubes (.060 over instead of .030) and different heads and intake. Other than that, it's really close to the same. I'm very excited about it, and can't wait to go to the shop when he puts it on the dyno. It should be done in about 2 weeks, but he's a busy man, so I'll be ok if it takes longer.
 
It will be money well spent and you,ll have peice of mind.IMO.I can,t wait to hear your reaction to the gobbs of torque!:cheers:
 
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