The end is near...

-
I don’t think I have anything going on this weekend maybe I’ll drive up there it’s only 800+ miles from me. I’ll fill up 3 times on the way and we can move your street prep down to half a block or I can do the 10 mile in reverse or I’ll time my trip to meet you at the line. When you say fuel up is that on pump gas, I usually run on 93 but if the gas station up there don’t run that high Im fine with 87. What fuel do you use.
 
loganscuda said:
I don’t think I have anything going on this weekend maybe I’ll drive up there it’s only 800+ miles from me. I’ll fill up 3 times on the way and we can move your street prep down to half a block or I can do the 10 mile in reverse or I’ll time my trip to meet you at the line. When you say fuel up is that on pump gas, I usually run on 93 but if the gas station up there don’t run that high Im fine with 87. What fuel do you use.
Click to expand...
Race gas.....it's a "real engine"
 
Rat Bastid said:
Who said they were “complete trash”? They are like every other NA Hemi ever built. They are junk NA unless you have the balls to wind them up. It doesn‘t matter if it’s a 392, 426, GIII or even a Pro Stock “hemi”. They require big RPM a to be competitive.

The LS, which is just as ugly as the GIII is a FAR BETTER engine to start with.

RPM is horsepower. To make horsepower with a Hemi you need big RPM.

Simple as that. NA compared to a wedge they can’t compete.
Click to expand...
When I hear "turd" that's what I think, worthless garbage. I understand the poor cylinder filling and excessive unwanted overlap flow at lower RPM due to the valve orientation. Is what you're saying here about the LS being a better starting point something you've come to conclude yourself or are there others who agree with you from experience? Also what about the much tighter included valve angle on the G3 compared to all the other Hemi engines, would that not aid in keeping the air/fuel going into the cylinders instead of out the exhaust? Serious questions, I'm trying to learn and resources are scarce. I might email Darin Morgan and/or BES about it because it's really got me curious now.
Rat Bastid said:
Do you think it can’t be done? Because it can.
Click to expand...
I think it can too, but with stock dished pistons down .050" at TDC that can provide 9.5:1 compression at best? The guy with the Hemi truck didn't mention anything about changing pistons. Then even if the lower compression can be overcome you'll end up spending way more on heads and likely valvetrain which you might say is besides the point but that's still one place the G3 has an advantage. If you disagree please explain how I'm wrong don't just shoot a red X at me.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Do you think it can’t be done? Because it can.
Click to expand...

But has it been? Not can be, but has been?

I've got pictures from back in '04 in Seattle of what appears to be an ex-factory drag truck with a 5.9 and even the beer barrel intake. Unfortunately I didn't grab any info on what time he ran. I remember I was pretty impressed.

Might be worth noting that the 5.7 truck in the video did it with ported stock heads. Seems unfair to use the same restriction on the 5.9 though.

Honestly, I think it would be cool to build an LA based motor that ran as well as a G3 on the street and met my needs. I was even planning to go down that road, but kept tripping over the fact that I can get a G3 into my car for similar money as some off the shelf heads for an LA. I just don't have the time or money to re-invent the wheel.

And when I say "run as well", I don't mean ultimate HP. Needs to cruise on the highway at 1500 or so RPM pulling 6th gear on the hills at 65 mph, get good mileage and be in the 450 HP range. No argument that you could get an LA based motor to do 2 of those, but 3 becomes hard. There are a couple of guys on here that have some of the aspects covered, but not all. And I couldn't afford their motors.

Can you build me an LA that makes 450 HP, runs happily at 1500 at 65 mph and get's 22+ mpg? For $4000? I think I will be under $3K for my motor and the parts to get it installed, but I'm not there yet so I figure there should be some wiggle room.
 
DionR said:
But has it been? Not can be, but has been?

I've got pictures from back in '04 in Seattle of what appears to be an ex-factory drag truck with a 5.9 and even the beer barrel intake. Unfortunately I didn't grab any info on what time he ran. I remember I was pretty impressed.

Might be worth noting that the 5.7 truck in the video did it with ported stock heads. Seems unfair to use the same restriction on the 5.9 though.

Honestly, I think it would be cool to build an LA based motor that ran as well as a G3 on the street and met my needs. I was even planning to go down that road, but kept tripping over the fact that I can get a G3 into my car for similar money as some off the shelf heads for an LA. I just don't have the time or money to re-invent the wheel.

And when I say "run as well", I don't mean ultimate HP. Needs to cruise on the highway at 1500 or so RPM pulling 6th gear on the hills at 65 mph, get good mileage and be in the 450 HP range. No argument that you could get an LA based motor to do 2 of those, but 3 becomes hard. There are a couple of guys on here that have some of the aspects covered, but not all. And I couldn't afford their motors.

Can you build me an LA that makes 450 HP, runs happily at 1500 at 65 mph and get's 22+ mpg? For $4000? I think I will be under $3K for my motor and the parts to get it installed, but I'm not there yet so I figure there should be some wiggle room.
Click to expand...
11.50"s would impress you
 
'68cuda416 said:
Race gas.....it's a "real engine"
Click to expand...

Not certain, but I think your "real motor" would be garage art in my area. No idea where I could even buy race gas right now with the track not open.

You sure you could even drive it 20 miles round trip and run 3 rounds without having to refuel? Asking for a friend.
 
DionR said:
But has it been? Not can be, but has been?

I've got pictures from back in '04 in Seattle of what appears to be an ex-factory drag truck with a 5.9 and even the beer barrel intake. Unfortunately I didn't grab any info on what time he ran. I remember I was pretty impressed.

Might be worth noting that the 5.7 truck in the video did it with ported stock heads. Seems unfair to use the same restriction on the 5.9 though.

Honestly, I think it would be cool to build an LA based motor that ran as well as a G3 on the street and met my needs. I was even planning to go down that road, but kept tripping over the fact that I can get a G3 into my car for similar money as some off the shelf heads for an LA. I just don't have the time or money to re-invent the wheel.

And when I say "run as well", I don't mean ultimate HP. Needs to cruise on the highway at 1500 or so RPM pulling 6th gear on the hills at 65 mph, get good mileage and be in the 450 HP range. No argument that you could get an LA based motor to do 2 of those, but 3 becomes hard. There are a couple of guys on here that have some of the aspects covered, but not all. And I couldn't afford their motors.

Can you build me an LA that makes 450 HP, runs happily at 1500 at 65 mph and get's 22+ mpg? For $4000? I think I will be under $3K for my motor and the parts to get it installed, but I'm not there yet so I figure there should be some wiggle room.
Click to expand...
I hear that ridiculous argument about being able to put a G3 into their old car for 700 dollars or so.......when I hear that kind of nonsense I really really really start to wonder if whom i'm talking to is playing with a full deck
 
DionR said:
But has it been? Not can be, but has been?

I've got pictures from back in '04 in Seattle of what appears to be an ex-factory drag truck with a 5.9 and even the beer barrel intake. Unfortunately I didn't grab any info on what time he ran. I remember I was pretty impressed.

Might be worth noting that the 5.7 truck in the video did it with ported stock heads. Seems unfair to use the same restriction on the 5.9 though.

Honestly, I think it would be cool to build an LA based motor that ran as well as a G3 on the street and met my needs. I was even planning to go down that road, but kept tripping over the fact that I can get a G3 into my car for similar money as some off the shelf heads for an LA. I just don't have the time or money to re-invent the wheel.

And when I say "run as well", I don't mean ultimate HP. Needs to cruise on the highway at 1500 or so RPM pulling 6th gear on the hills at 65 mph, get good mileage and be in the 450 HP range. No argument that you could get an LA based motor to do 2 of those, but 3 becomes hard. There are a couple of guys on here that have some of the aspects covered, but not all. And I couldn't afford their motors.

Can you build me an LA that makes 450 HP, runs happily at 1500 at 65 mph and get's 22+ mpg? For $4000? I think I will be under $3K for my motor and the parts to get it installed, but I'm not there yet so I figure there should be some wiggle room.
Click to expand...
3 doesn't become hard at all and the fact that you made that statement proves you have no idea what your doing and for that reason everything you post or reply about can be viewed the same way
 
DionR said:
Not certain, but I think your "real motor" would be garage art in my area. No idea where I could even buy race gas right now with the track not open.

You sure you could even drive it 20 miles round trip and run 3 rounds without having to refuel? Asking for a friend.
Click to expand...
10 miles roundtrip if you go back and actually read what I typed.....I won't get into the politics of your area but the fact that you can't get race gas in your area is all the reason I need to not live there.....sounds unamerican'ish to me
 
MopaR&D said:
When I hear "turd" that's what I think, worthless garbage. I understand the poor cylinder filling and excessive unwanted overlap flow at lower RPM due to the valve orientation. Is what you're saying here about the LS being a better starting point something you've come to conclude yourself or are there others who agree with you from experience? Also what about the much tighter included valve angle on the G3 compared to all the other Hemi engines, would that not aid in keeping the air/fuel going into the cylinders instead of out the exhaust? Serious questions, I'm trying to learn and resources are scarce. I might email Darin Morgan and/or BES about it because it's really got me curious now.

I think it can too, but with stock dished pistons down .050" at TDC that can provide 9.5:1 compression at best? The guy with the Hemi truck didn't mention anything about changing pistons. Then even if the lower compression can be overcome you'll end up spending way more on heads and likely valvetrain which you might say is besides the point but that's still one place the G3 has an advantage. If you disagree please explain how I'm wrong don't just shoot a red X at me.
Click to expand...


I couldn’t care less who agrees with me. The LS is a better starting point because of what it is. You learn that from 40 plus years of building all this junk. They are all junk when you look at it honestly.

We are talking about trying to make production manufactured junk run and make power that the factory NEVER intended. You have to be honest. It is what it is.

That means you have to sort out the junk and use the least junk to start with.

FWIW, I wouldn’t build an LS. A conventional SBC with obsolete 18 degree heads will kick the shot out of an LS all day long. I can argue that with the right 23 degree heads you can outrun an LS.

All the teeny boppers and bubble gummers think that new is better and old is ****. Tat couldn’t be further from the truth.

One more time. Chrysler went for the marketing over NA performance with the Hemi. Simple as that. Of course, I can argue that Chrysler knew it was going to boost the Hemi and that was part of it. And yet and still the vast majority of these Hemi engines went in NA vehicles.
 
As expected in a post like this “gas mileage” comes up often. As does “well it weights 4000 pounds”. Well guess what??? Some of us may be fat but we don’t like FAT.
 
'68cuda416 said:
I hear that ridiculous argument about being able to put a G3 into their old car for 700 dollars or so.......when I hear that kind of nonsense I really really really start to wonder if whom i'm talking to is playing with a full deck
Click to expand...

Yep, you are right. $700 for the swap would mean an awful lot of free parts and building stuff yourself. Can't say it is impossible, but I know I don't get that lucky.

I am at $2845.24 right now, and I started with a $400 core motor. If the motor doesn't clean up, it will certainly get more expensive. But so far (I think) I am only missing a TC cover, water pump, balancer and gaskets. I've got the motor, 6.4 intake/injectors, 6.4 cam and the needed springs, headers, mounts, oil pan, oil filter adapter, wiring harnesses and PCM. It will certainly be higher, but I still think it will be below the $4K threshold. Oh, and I already have my fuel tank setup as well.

I will be the first to admit that I don't know what I don't know. Wish there were some others that could see that as well.
 
pittsburghracer said:
As expected in a post like this “gas mileage” comes up often. As does “well it weights 4000 pounds”. Well guess what??? Some of us may be fat but we don’t like FAT.
Click to expand...

Just pointing out that not all of us live on the drag strip or can afford $100 in gas to go get ice cream. Sorry to bring the real world into the conversation.
 
C703B42D-78DE-4523-BF3D-5A7AC1AA7023.png
I’ll help you prove your point these are some of the stats I think from around 2015. All members here 1/4 mile times

4B56CBAD-85FA-4725-9CC4-CA974F32FF29.png
 
DionR said:
Yep, you are right. $700 for the swap would mean an awful lot of free parts and building stuff yourself. Can't say it is impossible, but I know I don't get that lucky.

I am at $2845.24 right now, and I started with a $400 core motor. If the motor doesn't clean up, it will certainly get more expensive. But so far (I think) I am only missing a TC cover, water pump, balancer and gaskets. I've got the motor, 6.4 intake/injectors, 6.4 cam and the needed springs, headers, mounts, oil pan, oil filter adapter, wiring harnesses and PCM. It will certainly be higher, but I still think it will be below the $4K threshold. Oh, and I already have my fuel tank setup as well.

I will be the first to admit that I don't know what I don't know. Wish there were some others that could see that as well.
Click to expand...
In your particular case a good bet for me is that your project never comes to fruition as many have seen this scenario play out before.....you will come to find out that trying to reinvent the wheel was harder than what they told you on a forum.
 
DionR said:
Just pointing out that not all of us live on the drag strip or can afford $100 in gas to go get ice cream. Sorry to bring the real world into the conversation.
Click to expand...
I also was pointing out the real world.
 
'68cuda416 said:
In your particular case a good bet for me is that your project never comes to fruition as many have seen this scenario play out before.....you will come to find out that trying to reinvent the wheel was harder than what they told you on a forum.
Click to expand...

Could be. Good thing I don't need you approval to keep moving forward.

And I think you misunderstood what was being "re-invented". Why build a motor when I can buy one that gives me what I want with a simple cam swap instead of a stroker crank, aftermarket heads and an aftermarket intake. I keep 90% of my motor OEM rather than keeping the LA block and tossing everything else.
 
Last edited:
'68cuda416 said:
I'm not sure what i'm looking at and it's hurting my eyes to try and read it but does what your trying to show mean that you have found someone to race my old school outdated technology LA based Barracuda ?
Click to expand...
Who said it was outdated technology. I’m just messing around with you. I could care less about any of this I was just bored. I do like your build though. But it’s not something I personally like. They closed down most of the tracks within 5 hours of me so it would be better off in a museum if I had something that bad ***.
 
DionR said:
Could be. Good think I don't need you approval to keep moving forward.

And I think you misunderstood what was being "re-invented". Why build a motor when I can buy one that gives me what I want with a simple cam swap instead of a stroker crank, aftermarket heads and an aftermarket intake. I keep 90% of my motor OEM rather than keeping the LA block and tossing everything else.
Click to expand...
I meant the obstacles that pop up when putting a driveline platform into a car that it was never intended for. I wish you luck on your build and completion, i'm sure it will meet and exceed your expectations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top