The friendly drag comp rules

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rumblefish360

rumblefish360

I have escaped the EVIL Empire State!
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OK everybody. I'd like to say first and for most that there are some pretty smart guys out there that can run me crazy on poking, tearing etc... the rules. Lets just keep it simple and fun huh???

I was chatting with RustyRatRod and running a few ideas past him on this. While these set of guide line rules are my idea, he did point out a few things. Since I have not exactly done this before, your help on these idea guide line rules would be of great help, but, as I said above, lets keep it simple for funs sake and the sake of the rookies looking to do similar things for the track and/or street.

Please take the time to read everything as so not to ask a question all ready spelled out.
Please don't split hairs.
Please keep the idea of this all in mind. simple, cheap, fun, go fast!
DO so make sure your car is safe!
Do so upgrade your cars brakes if need be. Add a roll cage if need be. Etc....
At the end of the day, your safety and well being is your responsibility and yours alone!
If your car can not pass your states DOT safety road rules and pass the NHRA safety rules, then you run at your own risk.

Don't be dumb, be safe, have fun, come home at the end of the day the same way you got to the track.

Now for the list....... Please stand by......
 
From top to bottom, seems like a good place to start;

IMO, the car should also be street worthy.

Scoop, anything goes

Air cleaner; Anything goes.

Carb.

A single 4bbl. to keep it simple and cheap.
Stock and stock replacement carbs are what I would like to see. In example;

Edelbrock carbs, basic Holley carbs. 4160/4150 & Avengers. Rebuilt TQ's, QJ's
No Pro built or after market carbs like AED.
Modify it yourself and be a good fella, start a thread and show us how! I wanna see this baby on your bench being done. And so do the new guys!

Intake,

any 4bbl. will do. Mods? Same as above.

Heads.

Run the heads the car came with if you can. I say IF you can because we all do not have what it came with. But it should be a OE head.
Swapping heads is OK. IE: LA for Magnum heads
Stock or replacement style valves
no porting or die grinder work
any valve job is OK
backcutting valves OK
Mill the head until your happy or have a door stop from going to far
I would like to see stock rocker arms, but, .....I'm not just so dead sure about dis-allowing roller rockers. What say you?

Camshaft; What ever you shove in there! LOL!
(While I don't see roller cams cheap, they can be used. What say you?)

Exhaust, what ever you installer have. Manifolds or headers!

Ignition; Any

I say, No electric water and fuel pumps UNLESS you swapped in a Magnum engine (Which has no provision for a mechanical pump)
OR is this not good?

Trans,

Manual, scatter shield OK
Single disc clutch
OE trans 3 or 4 speed

Auto; No Manual valve bodies or trans brakes
Shift kits, deep trans pan, extra cooling, high stall converters OK

Rear end;

Any OE rear, any gear, swap for sure grips & bigger rear, OK
(And makes sense but if you wanna be a one leg warrior and hero, go for it.)

Suspension;

OE and Cal Tracs

Body;

Any hood scoop will do.
Remove and replace what you want/need to. Fiberglass parts are the norm right?!?!?
No Lexan

Interior; Full street like. Not gutted to high heaven. You could loose the back and passenger seat.

OK people! What do you think of that? Basic, easy, readily seen on the street and tracks, nothing crazy or over the top. Kind of typical in a sense that this is what you can see 90% of the time of the road or car meets.
 
I Is 100 octane available everywhere? I never seen it here. Not saying it doesn't exist. So if it does so exist here, is it really OK to drive an hour or 40 miles for it?

E-85 is here on the Island. Is it everywhere? Is it safe to say that it is at your local corner? If it is, would you build such a octane dependent ride and travel 6 states with it? Across country?

I like the "Pump Gas" rule. IIRC, Cali. Would be handy capped by 91 octane. 91 isn't available to me. Next grade down for me is 89.

Also, I am not going to accept any PM's and complaints via PM on this idea.
If you don't like it, take a walk. Don't join! I had someone complain already that home ported heads should be allowed because everybody owns a die grinder but trick valve jobs can't be done by the average guy.

IF your head needs work, fix it. (Or not) Add the trick valve job. It's cheap.
Not everybody owns a die grinder and/or can port heads. Be it lack of balls or skill, it is an expense that someone may have to pay for just to keep pace.
Now it is not cheap.

And while I don't exactly see roller rockers or roller cams as cheap, if you already have a Magnum or late LA that is already roller cam equipped, why go backwards in the cam? Upgrading a LA to a roller is a lot of work and pricey.
Some expense I can see. Dropping 3K on ported aluminum head I do not see.

REALLY GUYS?!?!
 
While we're at it, those things like above and prior, home head porting or pro ported heads and like one member was so lucky enough to score a set of W2's for next to nothing (awesome deal by the way!) the wishing to add a turbo or super charger.

I think this can make the list of next years run for fun.

This may help give you some ideas and what may fit into the "Run for fun"
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=165040
 
This is very cool! I agree with the porting of heads. For some it's easy. The only thing I see that sets a flag is manual valve bodies and electric fuel pumps. Both can be found on the cheap! They also can be installed fairly easy. Keep the fuel pump pressure done to max 140psi for carb set up, and converters to a max 3000 stall. Just my penny. Again great idea!
 
Maybe there should be a dollar cap??? Classes with price of car included: 2k and under; 3k and under; 5k and under; 10k and under. I mean, cheap to some is 10k, while cheap to some is 2k. I have a feeling some of these A-body big block cars will be up in the thousands.... The point is cheap and fast, right? Just throwing it out there..
 
318willrun said:
Maybe there should be a dollar cap??? Classes with price of car included: 2k and under; 3k and under; 5k and under; 10k and under. I mean, cheap to some is 10k, while cheap to some is 2k. I have a feeling some of these A-body big block cars will be up in the thousands.... The point is cheap and fast, right? Just throwing it out there..
Click to expand...


I am trying to keep mine $1,500-$2,000 and under with the purchase of car .. There is some stuff that has to be done - brakes,suspension. Ect that will cost money
 
The extra cost is understandable for slowing down or safety and should not be considered in the build cost but noted for obvious reasons.
No classes. Build what ha got and show the world how to do it with what ya got.
No cost cap. Your goal is low to no buck. If you spend 10K on this, you need to share your money.

Electric fuel pumps on cars already equipped with a mechanical fuel pump just adds cost. Adding it to surplus fuel to a engine that has no provision for a pump is different.

What does it take to instal a manual valve body?
 
Sounds good to me, straight forward common sense. Cheap / budget builds are where it's at for me.
 
This is JMO, but I think if a car gets to where it NEEDS a manual valve body and an electric fuel pump, it is getting out of the realm of what we are doing here.

That said, my Bobcat will have to have an electric fuel pump because of the lack of a mechanical fuel pump boss on my engine. It is a 99 model 5.0 and was fuel injected. But the engine does not NEED an electric pump and it will not add any additional power. The engine is running stock rustang II exhaust manifolds. What's that say about how mild it is?

If I need to sit it out cause of the fuel pump issue, that's cool by me. But I am gonna do it nonetheless. Yall can just make my results for show.

Yes, manual valve bodies can be had cheap, but 99.9% of newbies out there do not build first hot rods with manual valve bodies. Add in all the other stuff that usually goes along with them and like I said above, IMO you are getting away from what this is about.

All of this of course is only a suggestion and my opinion and nothing more.
 
RustyRatRod said:
This is JMO, but I think if a car gets to where it NEEDS a manual valve body and an electric fuel pump, it is getting out of the realm of what we are doing here.

That said, my Bobcat will have to have an electric fuel pump because of the lack of a mechanical fuel pump boss on my engine. It is a 99 model 5.0 and was fuel injected. But the engine does not NEED an electric pump and it will not add any additional power. The engine is running stock rustang II exhaust manifolds. What's that say about how mild it is?

If I need to sit it out cause of the fuel pump issue, that's cool by me. But I am gonna do it nonetheless. Yall can just make my results for show.

Yes, manual valve bodies can be had cheap, but 99.9% of newbies out there do not build first hot rods with manual valve bodies. Add in all the other stuff that usually goes along with them and like I said above, IMO you are getting away from what this is about.

All of this of course is only a suggestion and my opinion and nothing more.
Click to expand...
A bit more experienced,went with a well known brand,manual v.b. .... (I hate the juggling of a stock ,Mopar kick down . Give the driver ( myself, in this case....) a better chance at achieved success ,for 2 bills. For most people, I would say,no.......(Jmo).....
,
 
My comments:

Gas: to me "pump gas" is typically 87/89 to 91/93 Octane range.

If RRR wants to run the Robcat, he should be able to. Are you going to run fuel injection or convert to carb? Either way I think those issues should not disqualify (DQ) him.

His point on manual valve bodies getting a little out of the theme are agreeable.


I also agree that anybody with engines that came with roller cams and electric fuel/water pumps can retain them [their challenge is to adapt it to their body which may not have came with it. And with "adapting" things, there are "challenges" that come along (that make us use bad words), so if they are willing to take on those tasks (and speak those words), they should be able to run them].


Just for talking's sake, the cost thing can be interpreted many ways (not that it is a show stopper, just "bench racing" here). I have a bunch of parts stock piled and ready to go (heads, cranks, chains, carbs, etc... just need to get sets of pistons and rods together to "crank out a few engines" so to speak --> got 3-4 projects going on at once). So from this point on, it wouldn't cost much to throw an engine together. But I would have much more than that into it. What is the "proper" way to account for the costs???

Or is cost too irrelevant, and just focus on getting something together?
 
No sir. I detest EFI. It already has a carbureted intake on it.
 
ok, hate to add a dumb question here but I am not getting the prejudice against manual valve bodies??

Do they give a car a certain advantage over not having one??

I am not getting why as said that rookies wouldn't be typical to use them?

It don't apply to me because I have a 4 speed but I am just really curious about this because I have never run an auto and the thought has crossed my mind to have an auto but they are more scarce for some reason than the typical 3 speed that they made gazillion million of.
 
Manual valve bodies are not something most newbies include. That's what this is all about. Showing newcomers to the hobby what can be accomplished with bare bones type builds. Not a lot of fancy, costly machine work or head porting. Not a lot of race ready parts like manual valve bodies and such.

But I am open either way. If yall want to include manual valve bodies, that's cool by me. I gotta 5 speed. lol
 
RaniDart70 said:
ok, hate to add a dumb question here but I am not getting the prejudice against manual valve bodies??

Do they give a car a certain advantage over not having one??

I am not getting why as said that rookies wouldn't be typical to use them?

It don't apply to me because I have a 4 speed but I am just really curious about this because I have never run an auto and the thought has crossed my mind to have an auto but they are more scarce for some reason than the typical 3 speed that they made gazillion million of.
Click to expand...
A lot of manual valve body/trans brake stuff is for the consistency of a bracket racer. Foot brake cars beat them all the time in E.T. Same thing with "box" cars. My brother's car "communicates" with the tree because reaction time is what wins races, not red lights. This group wants to reach newbies that know what a cam, carb, headers and gears are, but not the fancy terms that you would find on most 10k dollar bracket cars. I would love this personally, because this is all I've done my car life, however, don't know if I will find a donor car for this. My driveway is full and I have a duster coming.. lol
 
RustyRatRod said:
No sir. I detest EFI. It already has a carbureted intake on it.
Click to expand...


Then I don't see how it would be any different than running a magnum engine with an electric fuel pump....

Sounds fair to me....


(I prefer carbs to efi myself also)
 
Sounds like fun, maybe I can get in on it next year.

I wanted to understand the concept so I did my best to pull in everyone's thoughts (took some creative liberty)
 

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I will find something, no matter how slow, just to enter. I purchased a 3/4 Dodge Ram short time ago. Bought it real cheap. Perhaps I'll enter that and keep the whole project under 1k with purchase of vehicle and what I do. Remember, IF your pulling W2's and 6 pack set-ups from your garage, this is not what will be real to the newbies. It's not common to have those at garage sales for 50 bucks. To me, be sure and add their value to the cost of your project :) lest we deceive the newbies into thinking we can run low 11's on 1400 bucks!
 
KrazyKuda, I also have a few used parts that are part of the 28 year collection. Wish I had all of them from the years. Use what is on your shelf. No real need to justify the cost of the part. Equal it to days cost for "Possible" cost. What do I mean by that? Example;

When I was about 25 years old, I found at a local speed shop a LD340 modified as per the MP book said to do. The ports were slightly cleaned up, the carb pad modified for a TQ & the center divider milled down to 3/8th's.

Now I don't know how much this would cost in today's dollars, but I picked the intake up back then for an expensive $100. Today, the LD340 is approx a $200 intake period. Never mind the work by a well known speed shop to improve it.

If you intend on its use, just call it what it is. An old swap meet speed part purchase that costed you *** dollars but would be about Yyy dollars today. You could help a new guy out and say it's replacement is a RPM. They cost Bbb new from mail order speed shops today. Check your local pricing for today's costs.

Shopping around swap meets can yield better prices as always.

I have 2 B series intakes. At the current level of power, it is a wash on differences in power.
They happen to be the Holley Street Dominator and the MoPar M1 single plane. Both equal in power on this low HP engine.

If I install a "LA"'engine in my '79 Magnum, I have 7 intakes for standard heads and 2 for W5 heads. Only 1 of them was over a $100! But may very well retail at today's swap meet for more.
Not making use of the qualified intakes is wrong even though there purchase price was a lot cheaper than today's prices. You all ready have them, might as well use them. Just say what they are and test them out. Cost vary, year to year, swap meet to swap meet, person selling to person selling.
A general idea of the potential cost for an idea is all you can give.
 
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