The "NEW" GM

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CUUDAK

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This is a real joke! I know that most parts and materials are made elswhere but damn! More of our hard earned money leaving the states. No wonder its Broke!

 
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I hate to say but just look at the basic reasons. Everybody wants to make $30+ dollars an hour (drives up cost USA) vs paying (china) someone >$5 dollars and hour to do the same thing (saves money/build profit). That same worker then turns around and goes buy a foreign car (whatever brand-USA) vs buying the car you helped build (China). Then you have the cost of paying pensions added to the price of each vehicle that is sold, USA, (if I'm not mistake prior to the economy going bust, people were paying somewhere between $3000 to $5000 per car just for pensions!) vs. probably no pension plan in China (if there is one it is very very small). Lets not forget that there is a much much bigger market in China then the US.
Its just basic business, and add to the fact the economy plus gas prices, people look at why buy a GM/Ford/Mopar at $30,000+ for a decent car when I can get better for cheaper. Does it suck, depends on which side of the fence you are on; if you're on the losing end it suck but if you're on the winning end it kick ***.
 
Every Chinese POS I ever wasted money on broke before the days end. My inlaws bought one of those Chinese 4 wheelers for my kid and that was the biggest most dangerous POS. 1 hour after fueling it up the rear brake caliper broke off and the kid hit a tree. You get what you pay for!! I make it a point to look at labels to keep from buying Chinese crap!

My wife bought lightbulbs from a local food store that I noticed was from China for $1.99 for 4. I went to the local hardware store and bought 4 that were made in the USA for $1.29. WTF??

If it were up to me I would vote for Texas to secede from this F'd up Union.
 
Every Chinese POS I ever wasted money on broke before the days end. My inlaws bought one of those Chinese 4 wheelers for my kid and that was the biggest most dangerous POS. 1 hour after fueling it up the rear brake caliper broke off and the kid hit a tree. You get what you pay for!! I make it a point to look at labels to keep from buying Chinese crap!

My wife bought lightbulbs from a local food store that I noticed was from China for $1.99 for 4. I went to the local hardware store and bought 4 that were made in the USA for $1.29. WTF??

If it were up to me I would vote for Texas to secede from this F'd up Union.

I agree,chinese quality STINKS.They cannot be trusted to adhere to build specs unless you babysit thier factory.
 
The Chinese have realized that they're getting the $hitty end of the stick and are already working on getting safer working conditions, better pay, etc. etc. This has already begun sending jobs back. I doubt that this will go on forever. Say what you will about Obama, but at least he called out the Chinese for artificially manipulating their money to steal work.
 
I agree,chinese quality STINKS.They cannot be trusted to adhere to build specs unless you babysit thier factory.

Not long ago they were busted for excessive amounts of lead in the paint on kids toys!

I think they are trying to kill us with their products!

I was watching Top Gear a few weeks ago and the guys were in China checking out their new cars. Every one of them were rip-offs of other manufacturers cars. They even duplicated the BMW X5 with a minor change to the taillights. BMW sued and lost due to the Chinese Judge stated it looked nothing like a BMW.

They had the suv and looked identical to the X5!

Unbelievable!!!!
 
I find it funny when people call Toyota's, "Commie Cars". It is a sad day when a Japanese car is actually more American than Big Three automakers today. I remember seeing something several years ago that compared a Toyota Corolla to a Ford Mustang. They found there were far more American made parts in the Toyota than in the Fix Or Repair Daily.
 
China has no EPA or OSHA

That is what drives up cost of doing business much more then higher wages.

The factories here in Canada-USA, just about every job a female must be able to do it as well. Install wheels on suv's, forget lifting it, a machine needs to lift it so anybody can do that the job--wait, they now might have machines doing the full job of lifting and installing wheel-lug nuts.

We have too many regulations, big businesses just take their work overseas now.

I have no desire to buy-own any "new" GM car or truck--ever. That goes with Chrysler as well. They went bankrupt--that should had been it. Everything sold to the highest bidders-trademarks-everything. Instead GM-Mopar kept all their trademarks and cheated their retirees, suppliers, investors.

I'm never forgetting. I buy a gulp-Ford, before a 2009 and newer Mopar or GM car.

Then again, I might be tooling around come 2030 in a 1960 car, ha ha
 
I find it funny when people call Toyota's, "Commie Cars". It is a sad day when a Japanese car is actually more American than Big Three automakers today. I remember seeing something several years ago that compared a Toyota Corolla to a Ford Mustang. They found there were far more American made parts in the Toyota than in the Fix Or Repair Daily.
This is very true! I know because I build Toyotas for a living. There are also many feeder plants very close by that make parts that go into our cars. Toyota learned a big lesson when the tsunami hit Japan and shut down most of its global production. Since then, more and more parts are being built here in North America. People can say what they want about them, but I for one don't consider Toyota to be a foreign automaker. The Rav 4 is built exclusively here in Woodstock, Ontario, Corolla's are built here in Cambridge, Ontario and in Mississippi, Camry's are built in Kentucky and the trucks are built in Texas.
 
I agree,chinese quality STINKS.They cannot be trusted to adhere to build specs unless you babysit thier factory.

That doesn't excuse poor quality engineering and specifications, and most of all poor quality control and sample testing, by the Customer (in this case, GM).

It has less to do with "Chinese quality" and everything to do with meeting design specifications of the part being manufactured.

The fact that we always seem to miss is that the quality of anything built anywhere totally depends on the engineered specifications of the part. From materials to tolerances, the factory is going to build to meet that specification. That happens no matter where the factory is located, and no matter who is operating the machinery.

The old adage, "Garbage in/Garbage" out applies to the manufacture of anything, as well as it does to computers.

If design engineers raise the specifications and tolerances of a given part, that in turn raises the quality if that part.

The blame for poor quality rests on the person/ company specifying the quality of that part. That is almost never the manufacturing plant.
 
Toyotas = cheap , dependable , last long time , good gas mileage...and i hate TOYOTAS!
Engineering = the cheaper we can make the product there larger the profit ...
Factories = assemble what was engineered ...

China = makes lots of repop mopar parts .... AMD bumpers ... how many guys have AMD bumpers on there cars ? How about repop bezels ?
I hate to say it ...

We can argue this all day long... the fact of the matter is ... Chinese labour is helping our hobbie ...
 
That doesn't excuse poor quality engineering and specifications, and most of all poor quality control and sample testing, by the Customer (in this case, GM).

It has less to do with "Chinese quality" and everything to do with meeting design specifications of the part being manufactured.

The fact that we always seem to miss is that the quality of anything built anywhere totally depends on the engineered specifications of the part. From materials to tolerances, the factory is going to build to meet that specification. That happens no matter where the factory is located, and no matter who is operating the machinery.

The old adage, "Garbage in/Garbage" out applies to the manufacture of anything, as well as it does to computers.

If design engineers raise the specifications and tolerances of a given part, that in turn raises the quality if that part.


The blame for poor quality rests on the person/ company specifying the quality of that part. That is almost never the manufacturing plant.

I disagree.Just ask slantsixDan about how he shops for a good plant.

He sends out specs that are impossible to achieve,and weeds out all the plants that say "sure boss,no problem" which is MOST OF THEM. He then approaches the plants that caught his impossible specs and negotiates.

What kind of plant says ya we can build it when it's not freaking possible? And lets not forget that the decision to go with a plant likely does not rest with an engineer.That would be the board of directors,the president and the shareholders. It's the same affliction that Chrysler had during the 60's-70's;Well designed product but Chrsler had a thing for low bidders when it came to outside plant parts sources. And that was the bean counters making that choice,not the engineers or the workers,or the union.

And about the $30/hr wages. I see nothing wrong with a canadian/american making these wages; Seeing how EVERYTHING is sooooo frigging expensive,the high wages are a necessity,otherwise the worker and his/her family suffers from huge amounts of financed debt just so they can have a home.And good luck paying it off making 10 bucks/hr,that aint happenning. Without the better wages you would be looking at most all of us having debt slavery and passing that along to our kids.

Maybe share holders should take far less. That would solve a few problems.
 
It's only a matter of time before China prices and quality go up. Look at the Japan stuff when it first started coming over here nit was crap.Now alot of it is quality stuff people want toyotas and such because they last .When you are spending your hard earned money you want it to las. China will catch on faster than Japan the workers will want more money and companies will learn that quality will get them more business.Prices and quality will go up on the china made stuff.
 
F that Chinese crap! Took Japan over forty years to build a decent car. As for China, one word. Communism!
 
Toyotas = cheap , dependable , last long time , good gas mileage...and i hate TOYOTAS!
Engineering = the cheaper we can make the product there larger the profit ...
Factories = assemble what was engineered ...

China = makes lots of repop mopar parts .... AMD bumpers ... how many guys have AMD bumpers on there cars ? How about repop bezels ?
I hate to say it ...

We can argue this all day long... the fact of the matter is ... Chinese labour is helping our hobbie ...

LOL,NOT!! China stuff doesnt make it to my car if ar all possible. I shop where it's made very concientiously,as I really dont think China treats it's work force humanely.Change will come to China eventually,but thier corrupt govt will have to go first. Make no mistake about this;Unions are fighting for workers rights world wide,not just here.

As for the epa being an extra expense to production,well thats just too damn bad aint it? After all,if your family died thanks to some sort of environmental poisoning from a factory,the subsequent lawsuit to the company would likely finish it off anyways.The fact is that the epa is necessary because we cannot trust manufacturing companies to do the right thing.
 
I for one don't consider Toyota to be a foreign automaker.

Me either.

Vehicle models currently racing in NASCAR - Country of manufacturer:

Chevrolet............Canada

Ford...................Mexico

Dodge.................Canada

Toyota................USA
 
Vehicle models currently racing in NASCAR - Country of manufacturer:

Chevrolet............Canada

Ford...................Mexico

Dodge.................Canada

Toyota................USA

and with their pockets full of cash the money goes to Japan. All I can say is this is a fantastic excuse for the the extreme right, while my guitar gently weeps..
 
To much regulation in America. EPA needs castrated before it completely bankrupts this country. I get tired of people dogging on unions, a company makes profit and in most cases a whole bunch and a union makes sure the employees get some of it or we would be just like China, get it? EPA bankrupted the automakers with rediculous cafe standards and dpf filters that consumers don't want. Who wants a diesel that gets 15mpg on its best day? EPA and its other commie branches have cleverly figured out how to use MORE oil in the name of "cleaner air" and this at a time when diesel fuel is skyrocketting thanks to higher taxes for fuel surcharges as well as the higher cost of refining to remove sulfer. Attack the diesel truck and you cripple our economy and they accomplished just that.
 
And about the $30/hr wages.
I like to see everybody make a living wage but how much per hour
is that when you tack on all of the Union Health Care and Retirement
Benefits that non-union workers do not receive?

That's a lot of money compared to similar unskilled jobs in the
non-union sector.

Too much I'm afraid.....for a lot of union auto workers I've seen:

*/ No accountability for quality or production numbers.

*/ Call off sick on their birthday, for Christmas shopping and on days
....before and/or after major holidays.

*/ Drinking (or drugs) before their shift or on lunch breaks.

*/ Some come to work bearded/tatooed/pierced and unwashed looking
....like a bunch outlaw bikers (don't forget your do-rag).

*/ Having lookouts so others can sleep.

*/ Union protection from firing even when they deserve it.

*/ Striking when they don't get their way.

Non-union workers would never be able to get away with all of this crap.

Sure, there are a lot of good ones but there are also way too many bad apples.
 
I disagree.Just ask slantsixDan about how he shops for a good plant.

Actually, according to the rest of your post, you don't disagree. At least not as much as you think you do, anyway. The responsibility of turning out a product that meets your specifications depends on you (the customer) verifying that the manufactured product meets specification that you supply. Failure to do so, is a breech of contract.
failure on the part of the customer to verify the product, and to continue to do sample verifications during the production life of the part is the fault of the customer.

I am a business man, too. When I supply materials for a given job, it's my responsibility to verify that those materials meet the specs I supplied, ordered, and paid for. If I fail to do so, and my customer ends up with inferior product, I can't blame any one but my self. However... If the supplied product does not meet or exceed the specification I supplied, I can go back to the supplier or manufacturer (which ever) and hold them responsible.

Regarding lowest bidder, I never really understood the lore of that sort of business practice. Personally, I usuall throw out the low bid and the high bid, and then look at the guys in the middle for the best price. btw, "best price, and cheapest price are very often two different things. - Frankie



He sends out specs that are impossible to achieve,and weeds out all the plants that say "sure boss,no problem" which is MOST OF THEM. He then approaches the plants that caught his impossible specs and negotiates.

What kind of plant says ya we can build it when it's not freaking possible? And lets not forget that the decision to go with a plant likely does not rest with an engineer.That would be the board of directors,the president and the shareholders. It's the same affliction that Chrysler had during the 60's-70's;Well designed product but Chrsler had a thing for low bidders when it came to outside plant parts sources. And that was the bean counters making that choice,not the engineers or the workers,or the union.

And about the $30/hr wages. I see nothing wrong with a canadian/american making these wages; Seeing how EVERYTHING is sooooo frigging expensive,the high wages are a necessity,otherwise the worker and his/her family suffers from huge amounts of financed debt just so they can have a home.And good luck paying it off making 10 bucks/hr,that aint happenning. Without the better wages you would be looking at most all of us having debt slavery and passing that along to our kids.

Maybe share holders should take far less. That would solve a few problems.

Remember, the share holders are the only people risking their own money to make all of that work. It's called "Risk" for a reason.
 
....and with their pockets full of cash the money goes to Japan.
Prove it.

Toyota has invested more in plants in this country (providing
Amercan jobs) than any other auto company.

When the enormous (non-union) Tunda pickup plant in Texas shut down
for weeks due to excess supply Toyota did not lay off one single employee.

Everyone received full uninterupted pay and benefits to take training,
do plant upgrades & maintenance and to perform community service.
 
Vehicle models currently racing in NASCAR - Country of manufacturer:

Chevrolet............Canada

Ford...................Mexico

Dodge.................Canada

Toyota................USA

and with their pockets full of cash the money goes to Japan. All I can say is this is a fantastic excuse for the the extreme right, while my guitar gently weeps..
Far from it!! Toyota built a 1.2 billion dollar plant right here in my home town 4 years ago. They didn't build it in Japan. I have a great job because of their continued investments in North America.
 
$45,000 to clean bathrooms? LOL, kids money in this area.
No matter the job, a decent wage must be paid for the area you live in. If a good wage in your area is $25,000,……
 
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