Thinking of going BB...

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Sinister. said:
What cam are you planning on running? Sounds like we're probably going to end up with pretty similar engines lol....

From the reading I've done 906s and 346s are pretty much the same. Should I just go with which ever looks cleanest?
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The 906, 3456 and 452 are all the same head. The exception is the 452 has hardened exhaust seats. They all flow the same on the bench. As for cam, I'm not sure. I want to run a solid roller. But, what I want and reality will probably not be the same since i do want to get it running before I'm 80. I am looking at the Whiplash cam by Hughes and talking to Dave there about doing a custom solid flat tappet grind off that pattern. It's gonna be a solid cam whichever way I go. Since the cam I would choose IF I went hydraulic would require adjustable rockers anyway, I may as well take full advantage of them.
 
346 and 452 are essentially the same head except for the seat hardening. 906 is NOT the same as 346/452. A side by side comparison of the intake ports would show you they are not the same. Don't flow the same either. Stock 906 will outperform stock 452. Both heads mildly ported, the 452 will often flow better at higher lifts than the 906, but the 906 usually flows better in the .300-.400 lift range. Take you pick. My opinion on wrist pins: If you are on a budget, just use the stock rod with a pressed pin. If you want to use a piston with a floating pin, don't dick around with the stock rod. By the time you have the rods magged, resized , shotpeened and bushed, for jut a little more money you could have had a BRAND NEW set of H beams.
 
Good God. Here. Go argue with Mopar Muscle. http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/5115_cylinder_heads/index.html

As you can plainly see, all three heads are nearly identical. Yeah, the 906 flows a touch better....but you're splittin hairs. The 906 ain't nothin special. If you could see a difference in the heads you looked at, then somebody did some port work on um. If there's any differences at all, it's on the inside where you cannt see it and would have to get the mics out to tell the difference. The 906 heads were NOT a high performance head of any kind. They came on everything from 383 2 barrels all the way to the 440 six pack. Just cause people have spouted bullshit rumors for forty years doesn't make it true. The 346 and 452 heads will perform the SAME in any given equal engine as the 906. You would never see the difference on the dragstrip. Go tell that crap to the tech editors at Mopar Muscle and see how hard they laugh at you.
 
forphorty said:
By the time you have the rods magged, resized , shotpeened and bushed, for jut a little more money you could have had a BRAND NEW set of H beams.
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Yeah, from China. I would rather recondition stock AMERICAN Chrysler rods for 500 bucks than buy some Chinese knock off crappola I gotta worry about. No thanks. Them Chrysler rods held up for hundreds of thousands of miles and reconditioned, they're ready for more. I would put up a reconditioned LY rod with Wave Lock bolts in it any day against a Scat H beam rod and not think twice about it.
 
Looking at the chart you sent me shows that in the .400-.550 range the 906 intake ports flow 8-10 cfm more than the 346/452. You claim the 906 and 452 are the same. They are not.Their intake port shape and flow characteristics are different.Looking into the intake bowls, they are clearly not the same.I have owned both and compared the two. If you read the entire article, Dulcich explains the differences. Is there much difference performancewise between the two? Probably not. That's why i said "take your pick" in my earlier post.... As for the rods, i have LYs in my old junk, But if i ever get serious on a build , i'm gettin' some crappy chinese ones.:-D
 
Dood, are you arguin just for the sake of it, or are you just stupid? Did you see where I said there was a small difference? Let me show you what I said so you don't even have to use the brain power to scroll.

"As you can plainly see, all three heads are nearly identical. Yeah, the 906 flows a touch better....but you're splittin hairs."

I don't give a rat's *** what flow bench or shop you use, they will tell you flow that close is the damn same. You will never feel a difference in your ***, see the difference on the strip or dyno. never. for all intent and purpose all three castings are the SAME. Go preach your doo doo to somebody else, cause I ain't buyin it.
 
that's certainly not true. don't say that. you have an opinion and something to offer just like anybody else. this thing is hell with tone of voice....I was all about bein jokin around. you know like a couple of guys pokin fun in the shop? dumbass. LOL see what I mean? I've read all that stuff before. honestly though,unless you've got a bracket or drag car lookin for that extra .100th of a second, you'll never see the difference.....PLUS if you gotta a drag car lookin for that last little bit.....you're probably not gonna be lookin for it outta stock iron heads. know what I mean Vern? In THAT respect, they are all the same. got me now?
 
Now now ladies :p

Sounds like either will work fine for my application... kind of sucks that they don't have hardened valve seats though.
 
i have an extra set of clean 452s.
 
greyhound would probably ship reasonably.
 
naw they aint goin anywhere that I know of.
 
StrokerScamp said:
naw they aint goin anywhere that I know of.
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Alright. I'll let you know when I get a little closer on the build. You have some manifolds that will work for an A-body as well, don't you? I'm not sure if I'm going with headers or manifolds to start with. Depends on what I can find.
 
I didn't really accomplish much this weekend... had to many other things come up.

I did find out that one of the gentleman with a 440 wants $300 for it. It's complete but not running. It's supposed to be an HP one too. Is that a fair price? I'm not really sure what the things are going for.

I also found another local gentleman with multiple big blocks. I'm working on seeing if he has any cranks or whole 440s.
 
Sinister. said:
Alright. I'll let you know when I get a little closer on the build. You have some manifolds that will work for an A-body as well, don't you? I'm not sure if I'm going with headers or manifolds to start with. Depends on what I can find.
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I sure do. I think at this point, I am going to end up with headers. My project is becoming more long term because I want it a bit more radical than first talked about. Headers of some sort will be a must, I believe.
 
Let me just make a list here for criticism and so I have something to refer to...

For a 451 I need

forged 440 crank (turned down to 400 mains)
car oil pan (#187? located on the bottom side (I found a BB oil pan with no markings at all... wtf?))
recon'd LY rods
pistons (KB280?)
heads (452 for hardened valve seats or use the 906s or 346s that I have)
hedman b-body headers (if I want headers)
aluminum intake (if i can score it cheap)
carb (think my 650 vac 2nds would keep up? I also have a couple thermoquads in the garage but they would need rebuilt)
cam (not really sure on specs, open to suggestions)
conversion motor mounts

Additions, subtractions, advice?
 
Sinister. said:
Let me just make a list here for criticism and so I have something to refer to...

For a 451 I need

forged 440 crank (turned down to 400 mains)
car oil pan (#187? located on the bottom side (I found a BB oil pan with no markings at all... wtf?))
recon'd LY rods
pistons (KB280?)
heads (452 for hardened valve seats or use the 906s or 346s that I have)
hedman b-body headers (if I want headers)
aluminum intake (if i can score it cheap)
carb (think my 650 vac 2nds would keep up? I also have a couple thermoquads in the garage but they would need rebuilt)
cam (not really sure on specs, open to suggestions)
conversion motor mounts

Additions, subtractions, advice?
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Any comments at all? lol
From talking to some guys at BBD it looks like the hedman's won't work with power steering. So I'd either have to lose it, or use tti's or schumacher headers... ouch!
 
Sinister. said:
Let me just make a list here for criticism and so I have something to refer to...

For a 451 I need

forged 440 crank (turned down to 400 mains)

Correct. Cast will work, but needs to be internally balanced. the extra balancing cost will negate the cost between cast and forged so go forged. It will be stronger anyway.
car oil pan (#187? located on the bottom side (I found a BB oil pan with no markings at all... wtf?)

Correct. A pan stamped "699" will also work. Look for these pans on "C" body cars with big blocks.

recon'd LY rods

Yeah. These are lighter although many people (such as myself) are going to use or are using the six pack rods.
pistons (KB280?)

Yeah. there are a few more part numbers that'll work, but these are the least expensive.

heads (452 for hardened valve seats or use the 906s or 346s that I have)

Yup. If the 452 heads are in real good condition (most are) you can get by with a basic valve job and whatever guide repair you need.

hedman b-body headers (if I want headers)

Word on the street is they'll fit with minimal dents. Some have reported fitment with no dents.

aluminum intake (if i can score it cheap)

I have a nice Edelbrock Performer 383 that'll work good.

carb (think my 650 vac 2nds would keep up? I also have a couple thermoquads in the garage but they would need rebuilt)

The 650 will work until you get a Thermoquad rebuilt. It ain't gonna like the 650 though.

cam (not really sure on specs, open to suggestions)

Check your PMs.

Additions, subtractions, advice?
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I can hook you up with the HP manifolds that'll fit too. Just let me know.
 
I'm not sure if anybody still follows this thread or not but here's an update...

I knew the block was rough but I went ahead and ran a coarse hone through it to see if it was salvageable. We took it to about .010 and saw little change. Unfortunately, short of sleeving it, the block is no good.

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So I'm looking for a new block but I might have found one. It was complete from intake to pan. This is good because as of right now, I don't have a use-able fan and don't have a distribute at all, and it does. It also may be a later block so it might have the larger mount bosses and 452s. Seems like a decent deal for $100.
 
I'm hoping to hear back from the guy today about it. From the pictures I saw, it also has headers... I'm not sure what they are though..
 
Cant belive I never saw this thread. Too bad about the block. You might want to consider sleeving as an option. By the time your done chasing your tail trying to find a good block without too much core shift,you'll be dollars ahead to just sleeve the block you have. Doesnt cost that much.

Your 451 sounds like mine,very limited budget. 400 block can use 440 pistons as well. Heres a trick I havent tried to figure if it'll work though. How about taking some stock low comp 440 pistons in the .060 over range and see if they'll work? After all you'll have a stock 440 bottom end. The B block being shorter than the rb,you will find those low comp pistons at the top of the hole in a B block.

Ported 451 heads and log manifolds will get you at least 500 h.p.
 
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