LXguy
Well-Known Member
How much money do you think that racer has in those cylinder heads?
I'm betting A WHOLE LOT more than a set of Edelbrocks or W2s would cost.
Thinking outside the box
- Thread starter Bill Dedman
- Start date
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How much money do you think that racer has in those cylinder heads?
I'm betting A WHOLE LOT more than a set of Edelbrocks or W2s would cost.
3404spdvaliant
Banned
3404spdvaliant
Banned
YOU CAN'T PORT HEADS IN THAT CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LXguy
Well-Known Member
That makes it more expensive, not less.
Good engine shops charge thousands of dollars for heads for the NHRA stock classes.
You don't seriously think that those guys are just running a stock head with a valve job do you?
3404spdvaliant
Banned
WOW. something to look into but I don't know.....
Yea I guess guides, 3 angle, stock sized valves, and correcting cc's etc.. is thousands of dollars.
Then there are the cheaters with there 'guarantied to pass inspection' port work.
Try the suspension.
LXguy
Well-Known Member
:angry7: Yeah, that's all they have done to them.
You can be sarcastic if you want (which just makes it obvious you don't know what you're talking about), but take it from someone who has raced these classes, that there is LOTS of money in these Stock cylinder heads.
Yes, the suspension is scienced out too, and so is everything else.
Bigdummy
Not a Nova
He copied them from mopar
The reason everyone runs chev is it costs about a third of what a mopar build does. Every one has parts for them to. I race boats an am the only mopar in the field. The class I run we are limited to 412 cubes. Have to run caste heads an a stock porting angle. W2 heads are a good head a flow good especialy with a little help. The porting angle on a crysler is 18 compared to 23 which is a big plus. There is no dought mopar is a better engine. The only disdvantage I have found is mopars wiegh about 100 pounds more an you have to modify the oiling system so dam much for substained high rpm.
3404spdvaliant
Banned
Yea the oiling system leaves much to be desired.
The chevy sb oils to 10,000 stock, it's just that the rods break at 6800+rpm and the rocker studs fly out through the valve covers, and most being cast crank so it breaks in half of corse, oh and the stock heads don't work up there very well either....
>>>>>Hey dedman you don't know what the hell your talking about and if it's just a ***** about wanting better heads for cheap, you're going about it the wrong way..
I don't????
At the bottom of this message is a copy of the November 28 issue of National DRAGSTER's Stock class records page.
Look at where it says "G Stock," please...
What does it say???
It says "MINIMUM." There IS no record. The old record, held by Rod Green , was retired on 11/3... something you somehow missed because you would rather get dated information from an old National DRAGSTER that you picked up for free at Pomona, than subscribe and keep up-to-date on what's going on.
The next time you tell somebody they don't know what the Hell they're talking about, I'd suggest you find out the facts so you don't look so... uninformed.
>>>>>The last national dragster I picked up at pomona says......
G/S 10.98 @121.12 ROD GREEN DUNLOP TN. 72' DODGE DEMON.
Thats G/S, get it?????
Your information is O-L-D.... Obsolete. Get it??????????
>>>>>06' LS7 bore & stroke= 4.125/ 4.00, ok?
Escalame 07' & later=4.065/ 3.622 , yea I know and was referring to the above.
I still don't have a clue as to what your reason was for talking about the stroke on a GM motor. It sure didn't pertain to the "tall port" small block Mopar heads I am trying to promote.
>>>>>OH and I guess your right about the nhra rating, it isn't 325, it's 328 knuckle head=70 340 barracuda.
See you said the 71' 350 was rated higher then any sb mopar, WRONG.
http://www.nhra.com/2004/sportsman/n...er/121501.html
I was under the impression that you'd be smart enough not to attempt to compare a single four barrel Chevy to a multiple carburetion Mopar. That 290 hp motor is the six-pack 340, and not a direct comparison to a single 4bbl Chevy motor. Apples and oranges... What I said still stands; the 314HP single 4bbl 340 (1971) is the highest rated small block Mopar (exclusive of the six-pack), while the single 4bbl Camaro (OEM rating of 295hp) 350 carries a factor of 325hp.
It's true.
>>>>>And you still don't answer my question about wether the lq9 heads will bolt to a 350, which is a fair comparison being they came out around the same time and 350's were even made longer then the 340 meaning they had more development and their head design was out longer also.
No, they won't bolt onto ANY other Chevy small block, including the LT-1.
Why do you even ask? Again, that has nothing to do with the tall port L-A/Magnum heads I'm talking about trying to get made. I was just using those heads as an example of what can be done flow-wise, with a true wedge (non canted-valve) small block head, like an L-A or Magnum. What they will or will not bolt onto is of no interest, here.
>>>>>How much are those chevy heads new?
I'm sure they are over $2000 which is all it wold cost to bolt on w2's or ported eddy's that flow the #'s you speak.
No, they are exceedingly CHEAP... something like $800 a pair in aluminum... Car Craft did an article on them (the Escalade head) and raved about how unbelieveably CHEAP they were. That price was with valves and springs; ready to bolt on. But, who cares; I don't need 'em... I have a 360.
>>>>>There are ways which manufactures compete HP wise and you can bet that chrysler aint competing with a 40old dinosaur motor [which still kicks ***] Instead they are using technology =NEW HEMI
Buck up for w2's,eddys,Indy's &....Quit bitching.lol
#1. I don't CARE what Chrysler is doing to compete with GM horsepower wise; I know what ~I~ am doing (and, it's belt-driven.) But to just say, "Buck up for W-2's, etc." is to abandon the spirit of hot rodding, which said, always try to find a better way (and, cheaper, if possible) to achieve the goals you've set for yourself.
I think a tall port, cast iron L-A/Magnum head could be the answer to the affordable 300+cfm intake flow cylinder head.
You said, "if it's just a ***** about wanting better heads for cheap, you're going about it the wrong way."
How would you do it???????
I don't????
At the bottom of this message is a copy of the November 28 issue of National DRAGSTER's Stock class records page.
Look at where it says "G Stock," please...
What does it say???
It says "MINIMUM." There IS no record. The old record, held by Rod Green , was retired on 11/3... something you somehow missed because you would rather get dated information from an old National DRAGSTER that you picked up for free at Pomona, than subscribe and keep up-to-date on what's going on.
The next time you tell somebody they don't know what the Hell they're talking about, I'd suggest you find out the facts so you don't look so... uninformed.
>>>>>The last national dragster I picked up at pomona says......
G/S 10.98 @121.12 ROD GREEN DUNLOP TN. 72' DODGE DEMON.
Thats G/S, get it?????
Your information is O-L-D.... Obsolete. Get it??????????
>>>>>06' LS7 bore & stroke= 4.125/ 4.00, ok?
Escalame 07' & later=4.065/ 3.622 , yea I know and was referring to the above.
I still don't have a clue as to what your reason was for talking about the stroke on a GM motor. It sure didn't pertain to the "tall port" small block Mopar heads I am trying to promote.
>>>>>OH and I guess your right about the nhra rating, it isn't 325, it's 328 knuckle head=70 340 barracuda.
See you said the 71' 350 was rated higher then any sb mopar, WRONG.
http://www.nhra.com/2004/sportsman/n...er/121501.html
I was under the impression that you'd be smart enough not to attempt to compare a single four barrel Chevy to a multiple carburetion Mopar. That 290 hp motor is the six-pack 340, and not a direct comparison to a single 4bbl Chevy motor. Apples and oranges... What I said still stands; the 314HP single 4bbl 340 (1971) is the highest rated small block Mopar (exclusive of the six-pack), while the single 4bbl Camaro (OEM rating of 295hp) 350 carries a factor of 325hp.
It's true.
>>>>>And you still don't answer my question about wether the lq9 heads will bolt to a 350, which is a fair comparison being they came out around the same time and 350's were even made longer then the 340 meaning they had more development and their head design was out longer also.
No, they won't bolt onto ANY other Chevy small block, including the LT-1.
Why do you even ask? Again, that has nothing to do with the tall port L-A/Magnum heads I'm talking about trying to get made. I was just using those heads as an example of what can be done flow-wise, with a true wedge (non canted-valve) small block head, like an L-A or Magnum. What they will or will not bolt onto is of no interest, here.
>>>>>How much are those chevy heads new?
I'm sure they are over $2000 which is all it wold cost to bolt on w2's or ported eddy's that flow the #'s you speak.
No, they are exceedingly CHEAP... something like $800 a pair in aluminum... Car Craft did an article on them (the Escalade head) and raved about how unbelieveably CHEAP they were. That price was with valves and springs; ready to bolt on. But, who cares; I don't need 'em... I have a 360.
>>>>>There are ways which manufactures compete HP wise and you can bet that chrysler aint competing with a 40old dinosaur motor [which still kicks ***] Instead they are using technology =NEW HEMI
Buck up for w2's,eddys,Indy's &....Quit bitching.lol
#1. I don't CARE what Chrysler is doing to compete with GM horsepower wise; I know what ~I~ am doing (and, it's belt-driven.) But to just say, "Buck up for W-2's, etc." is to abandon the spirit of hot rodding, which said, always try to find a better way (and, cheaper, if possible) to achieve the goals you've set for yourself.
I think a tall port, cast iron L-A/Magnum head could be the answer to the affordable 300+cfm intake flow cylinder head.
You said, "if it's just a ***** about wanting better heads for cheap, you're going about it the wrong way."
How would you do it???????
Burntorange70
Well-Known Member
Every time I go to the drags there are a hand full of Mopars there I a sea of chevys and fords.* It is not to hard to see why they have a hard time of it.* When LACR was still open I went out and watched four Mopars battle it out with the chevys and fords.* Three of them were in the final four.* One took home the over all win!
Bob Glidden Raced a Plymouth Arrow. NHRA factored him three times in a single season to try to slow him down. He still won the championship that year. He was running a 340 BTW!
Bob Glidden Raced a Plymouth Arrow. NHRA factored him three times in a single season to try to slow him down. He still won the championship that year. He was running a 340 BTW!
PISSEDDRUNKERD
Banned
According to national dragsters late 07' issue a dodge demon held the record minimum or not it's still a record.
What's the difference between your la vs lq9 and his 350chvy to six pack hp comparison?
mopar has never been cheap, but does make heads that get the job done w2,w9 and even most of their race heads will bolt to a stock block and some will run, not to sure about p series.
My grasp of fluid dynamics isn't what it used to be (not that it was ever that solid (no pun intended)), but I'd think that a tall, narrow intake port would keep the velocity on the high side while still achieving an impressive total flow number. If this system (heads, intake & exhaust) could be done for a minimal cost increase above the old design castings, the landscape could change quite a bit. It would certainly beat the crap out of the Edelbrock package.
PISSEDDRUNKERD
Banned
Well from what I know, when air has to go bend up or down, taller is better.
And when air needs to bend right or left, wider is better.
Air likes the straight line ya know.
Comparing old 340-360 to new lq9-ls7 makes no sense being that they were able to change even the engine to acomodate the new design heads while the 340-360 is what it is.
It sounds like another complaint about mopars being too expensive, I hear this a lot from...well lets just say other types of car enthusiasts.
And when air needs to bend right or left, wider is better.
Air likes the straight line ya know.
Comparing old 340-360 to new lq9-ls7 makes no sense being that they were able to change even the engine to acomodate the new design heads while the 340-360 is what it is.
It sounds like another complaint about mopars being too expensive, I hear this a lot from...well lets just say other types of car enthusiasts.
AA....
If I thought Mopars were too expensive, I wouldn't have built one.
Having said that, I will say that in the automotive world, there's always room for improvement, and that is just what I am suggesting; an improved L-A/Magnum head that can flow right up there with GM's latest effort without breaking the bank.
There's no reason a taller-port, cast iron head can't be made, if EQ can cast these greatly-improved versions of the R-T head (or, whatever they are.) They are a lot better than a stock Magnum head, but not better than a ported set of Edelbrock aluminum heads, but they COULD have been, if they'd raised the port roof about .75" and modified an existing manifold design to match the ports. Why go halfway???
If there's something wrong with wanting that, I wish somebody would tell me what it is. I don't see anything but positives....
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
If I thought Mopars were too expensive, I wouldn't have built one.
Having said that, I will say that in the automotive world, there's always room for improvement, and that is just what I am suggesting; an improved L-A/Magnum head that can flow right up there with GM's latest effort without breaking the bank.
There's no reason a taller-port, cast iron head can't be made, if EQ can cast these greatly-improved versions of the R-T head (or, whatever they are.) They are a lot better than a stock Magnum head, but not better than a ported set of Edelbrock aluminum heads, but they COULD have been, if they'd raised the port roof about .75" and modified an existing manifold design to match the ports. Why go halfway???
If there's something wrong with wanting that, I wish somebody would tell me what it is. I don't see anything but positives....
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
PISSEDDRUNKERD is 3404spdvaliant and is banned.
Sorry kiddo, to many complaints against you. Go join OHD over at yellowbullet.com where you'll be just fine and at home there.
Sorry kiddo, to many complaints against you. Go join OHD over at yellowbullet.com where you'll be just fine and at home there.
Thank you, DOKTOR X... You may have the right perscription for this port-flow problem...
LXguy
Well-Known Member
Man, its guys like you that give Mopar guys the "Know it all, but slow as hell" reputation we have in the brand X camps.
Hope you'll be joining 3404spdvaliant here directly.
moper
Well-Known Member
Too bad, I thought this thread had merit Bill. I see you've been around SE for a while... One of my mentors for 4 years was Jaques Blais. Previous Div 1 record holder for S/F, S/G, and S/M (with a 2bbl on the same engine) in his '71 351 Cleveland powered Mustang (oh yeah, and never cheated. It was his biggest concern was error in tech inspection that would cause him to appear to be cheating.) These guys have no clue what goes into those engines...lol.
Thanks for the kind words, moper.
Are you talking about SE Buchanan, the CNC guy? I've known him (and his brother, Verne) since they were in high school.
SE does a lot of work for Brodix on a contract basis.
Were you a Ford guy in a former life?
Bill, in Conway, AR
Are you talking about SE Buchanan, the CNC guy? I've known him (and his brother, Verne) since they were in high school.
SE does a lot of work for Brodix on a contract basis.
Were you a Ford guy in a former life?
Bill, in Conway, AR
You keep proving that your reading comprehension skills seem to lie between little and none. What I said was, "I don't want a Chevy; I just want to outrun them."
ONE MORE TIME: I only mentioned the Escalade heads to demonstrate that an out-of-the-box, true wedge, head CAN flow over 300cfm... because THEY do.
If they can do it, why can't we have such a head? The tall port L-A/Magnum head would seem to be our best bet at achieving that goal.
That is my hope, anyway.
And from that, you think I "love Chevys"????
You delude yourself...
Thanks, LX... what goes around comes around.
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
69 Valiant Kid
Well-Known Member
too much man love up in here....mopar rocks.
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