Three-on-the-Tree with 273 4/bbl?

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Valiantjim

Valiantjim

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OK, so this is a shot in the dark to see if anyone can testify from experience.

I've had four 65/66 A-body 273 4bbl cars of which I still have a 66 Dart. Two were 4spds and two AT. My favorite A-body of all of the nearly 100 I've had is the 66 Valiant V100 2dr post. I'm currently working on my "ultimate" in my late 60s with the idea I build it, enjoy it and stop the constant hunting and acquisition.

I learned to drive in a 69 Saab with 4spd column shift. I like column shifts a lot and have had some that were very crisp and precise by virtue of low miles. I'm toying with the idea of using the 50's/60's early hot rod trick of shifting a 4spd trans via a 3spd column shift mechanism. The H pattern easily adopts to one thru four on the column through the original shift rods with the 3rd reverse rod going to a short stick mounted to the side of the trans tunnel. It's what was done in the day when a column shift was considered more advanced and effective then still grabbing a rod coming through the floor like Dad's Model A. For further fun and games, I see adding a Gear Vendors overdrive to the NP833 that makes four-on-the-tree into eight-on-the-tree. What fun!

So here's my question relative to the stock appearance stealth V100 I'm building to look like a 273 Commando car. (I had one). Has anyone ever seen a 273 4bbl Valiant/Cuda/Dart with a 3spd column manual? If that was a base before an optional 4spd or AT, I'd love to do it...
 
None of what I say matters cause I ain't seen it all and don't know it all. There's my disclaimer.

I've never seen a factory 4 barrel 273 "Commando" or anything like "that" with a column shift three speed. Does that mean they didn't make one? No. I'm just one more person besides you whose never seen it. I say do it. It'll be cool. I thought about doing that to Vixen, but I am going to put a Mustang T5 in her instead.
 
@RustyRadRod Thanks, pretty much a perfect affirmation short of whether it ever happened. I figure I'm going to do it regardless, as you say "it'll be cool".
 
Valiantjim said:
@RustyRadRod Thanks, pretty much a perfect affirmation short of whether it ever happened. I figure I'm going to do it regardless, as you say "it'll be cool".
Click to expand...
It dang sure will. I can tell you Ford had some 4 speed column shifters from the factory in some of their early sixties cars. There's a guy in Houston County (pronounced HOWston) who has one that makes the local car show rounds. It's not a Galaxie....Starliner maybe? I think it's a 60 or 61, but it's a four speed column shift with the reverse lever under the dash. Pretty cool.....and different.
 
I seem to rember my 3 on the tree 63 Econoline van, you had to pull the shifter toward you to put it up into reverse. So that would suggest that there is a spair position to be had by adding the correct levers/ gates.

(Dots are place holders)
R......2
|........|
---------
..... |...|
.....1..3
 
My first car was a 65 Dart 270 with a Hp 273 and a 3 speed column shift. Now I found out it was one of very few built with that combination. I think Ulf has the numbers. @65dartcharger
 
toolmanmike said:
My first car was a 65 Dart 270 with a Hp 273 and a 3 speed column shift. Now I found out it was one of very few built with that combination. I think Ulf has the numbers. @65dartcharger
Click to expand...
Well there you have it! I knew Mike would know. I'd like to see one of those. I bet is was cool.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Well there you have it! I knew Mike would know. I'd like to see one of those. I bet is was cool.
Click to expand...
I have been looking for the one pucture I took of the car. Taken with a Polaroid Swinger camera. It was white with a painted on black top and red interior. It was pretty sharp. I wish I could find that picture.
 
toolmanmike said:
I have been looking for the one pucture I took of the car. Taken with a Polaroid Swinger camera. It was white with a painted on black top and red interior. It was pretty sharp. I wish I could find that picture.
Click to expand...
I just BET whoever got it down the line replaced the column shifter with something else.
 
Years back I did a three on the tree 71 dodge 4x4 pickup. An A body 4 speed fit right in place of the three speed. I used a PTO cable with knob under the dash for reverse. I got it out of an old dump truck. It was pretty cool to drive. It was a slant six.

dodge truck 71a 001.jpg


dodge truck 71b 002.jpg
 
Wow, double win!

@toolmanmike with the confirmation I was looking for. It made sense to me that Mopar being Mopar the basic config was there but rarely left in standard form.

And @Oldmanmopar the PTO cable solution is far more elegant then the floorpan lever, I'll use that idea for sure.

Thanks everybody for a quick turnaround response beyond expectation! I've been plotting "my ultimate Valiant" for many years and will be proud to show it to the few folks I expect will understand and appreciate where it's coming from.

As a reference origin, Mopar Action's debut "Restoration" column in the early 90's featured my junkyard find 1966 V100 2dr post that was factory: 273 Commando, 4spd, Rally suspension, manual disk brake, 16/1 fast ratio manual, 3.55 Sure-Grip, radio delete, bench seat, beige in and out. I've never gotten over that thing and in honor of it intend to go fantasy above and beyond while still looking right.
 
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

I'll be watching this conversion - it's exactly what I plan for my 66 Valiant. It will get a four-on-the-tree with reverse operated by a heavy duty cable under the dash.
 
There was a ‘66 Valiant for sale about 10 years ago in Knoxville Tn.
It had a slant six auto but the seller had bought it from original owner. The seller claimed it was originally a 273 Commando with a 3 speed manual column shift.
 
@SSVDP Thanks for the additional evidence!

I'm pretty confident now this will be an authentic variation, with the nearly invisible change to 4spd plus Gear Vendor OD, 8spd.
One more thing that would be exciting would be surfacing of an original car with three-on-the-tree and 273/4bbl still intact. Has to be in the unicorn field somewhere.

I'm not there yet, but when I get to it, I'm thinking of ways to improve the precision of the mechanism, like upgrading the pivots to adjustable ball/socket etc.
 
Well it seems you've received the confirmation that it really was a "thing". That's kinda exciting.
 
Valiantjim said:
OK, so this is a shot in the dark to see if anyone can testify from experience.

I've had four 65/66 A-body 273 4bbl cars of which I still have a 66 Dart. Two were 4spds and two AT. My favorite A-body of all of the nearly 100 I've had is the 66 Valiant V100 2dr post. I'm currently working on my "ultimate" in my late 60s with the idea I build it, enjoy it and stop the constant hunting and acquisition.

I learned to drive in a 69 Saab with 4spd column shift. I like column shifts a lot and have had some that were very crisp and precise by virtue of low miles. I'm toying with the idea of using the 50's/60's early hot rod trick of shifting a 4spd trans via a 3spd column shift mechanism. The H pattern easily adopts to one thru four on the column through the original shift rods with the 3rd reverse rod going to a short stick mounted to the side of the trans tunnel. It's what was done in the day when a column shift was considered more advanced and effective then still grabbing a rod coming through the floor like Dad's Model A. For further fun and games, I see adding a Gear Vendors overdrive to the NP833 that makes four-on-the-tree into eight-on-the-tree. What fun!

So here's my question relative to the stock appearance stealth V100 I'm building to look like a 273 Commando car. (I had one). Has anyone ever seen a 273 4bbl Valiant/Cuda/Dart with a 3spd column manual? If that was a base before an optional 4spd or AT, I'd love to do it...
Click to expand...
OK, I'm an old fart and remember all this stuff. I bought a '65 Valiant V100 new, and the option list was like a Chinese menu. The Commando V8 was a $99 option over the base V8 (which I bought), and, yes, you could order it with a 3 on the tree. Everything was an option. Glove box light, backup lights, carpeting, bucket seats, all were individual order items....not like these days where everything is packaged. Ah, the good old days!
 
Tonto7 said:
OK, I'm an old fart and remember all this stuff. I bought a '65 Valiant V100 new, and the option list was like a Chinese menu. The Commando V8 was a $99 option over the base V8 (which I bought), and, yes, you could order it with a 3 on the tree. Everything was an option. Glove box light, backup lights, carpeting, bucket seats, all were individual order items....not like these days where everything is packaged. Ah, the good old days!
Click to expand...
I should mention that the column shift mechanism is poor. Mine would drag out of 1st and get hung between neutral and 2nd. Ended up putting in a a tunnel kit and a Hurst shifter. Mine originally came with a crappy clutch disc....think it was 9¼"...car magazine said it shouldn't be used in anything more potent than a washing machine! Managed to get the dealer to put in the 10" Commando clutch for free.
 
Valiantjim said:
with the nearly invisible change to 4spd plus Gear Vendor OD, 8spd.
Click to expand...
Splitting gears on a Regular A833 is Not a hoot, because getting out of the split and back into the main, the gears are too tight to eachother. Here's what I mean, splits in red;
2.66-2.07-1.92-1.50-1.40-1.09-1.00-.78od Notice 1.50/1.40, and 1.09/1.00
---.78---.93---.78 --.93---.78--.92---.78
shifting at 5500, that .93 split drops the Rs just 385rpm

There is only one trans that is half-way decent, namely the A833 od
3.09-2.41-1.67-1.30-1.00-.78-.57 and splits of;
---.78---.69--.78---.77--.78--.73, but now you are pretty much married to splitting, cuz, the regular gears,
3.09--1.67--1.00-.73 are quite far apart, and over time you will grow to hate it.
----.54---.60---.73 Well, I hated it and got rid of it.

The best box to use is the Commando
3.09-2.41-1.92-1.30/1.40-1.09/1.00--.78od
----.78--.77--.78..
You still have 1.30/1.40 and 1.09/1.00 issues, where you choose one or the other depending on circumstances, but how you shift it, normally, is this;
3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.72; except if in a hurry then
3.09-2.41-1.92-1.50------1.09-.78od
----.78---.80.--.78------.73-----.72
1.50 ratio with 3.55s will get you 90mph at 6000.
The starter with 3.55s is 10.97 about the same as 4.10s with a 2.66low box.
65mph=2040rpm in .78od
Caution;
When you use the GVod as splitter, you have to bypass the control module, else it shifts waaaaay too slow. But without the module you have to make 100% sure to NEVER back up with the unit engaged, because just a few inches in reverse will wreck it. So then, it is up to you to figure out how to protect that GV unit.
Furthermore,
the GVod pump gets it's power from the spinning driveshaft. It needs a minimum driveshaft rpm to accumulate enough pressure to make a shift. With 4.56s no problem. with 3.23s you're looking at about 25/30mph, for the initial charge. But it only holds that pressure for a minute or so; so if you stop at a light, you gotta charge it up again.
I have that Commando/GVod Combo in my car; it's very flexible. I have a stout-367 so only rarely split gears. I run the blue pattern.
And yes, I broke it one time, backing up.
Jus saying.
 
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The V8 with 3 speed early A combo would have most likely had a 745 transmission a HD version of the 903 with the hump in the top cover to clear the larger input shaft gear.
 
Close friend of mines Dad swears he had a 3 on the tree Commando in a 66 Valiant. I never saw it, was before my time but I've learned to never say never.
Love the idea of 4 on the tree!
 
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