Ticking noise, 383, can't locate the source

[matthon]

Ticking started a few weeks ago.
383, aluminum heads, Schumacher headers.

I changed the collector gaskets recently as one failed before this tick. I used a straight file on both sides and a little copper spray.

No leaks at collector or heads, no signs of a leak on either side, no air flow felt anywhere.

Ticking started a few weeks after I replaced gaskets, but sounded different.

A mechanic friend listened to it running, told me to bring each cylinder to tdc and push down on the rockers/lifters.
If there was a bad lifter, or lobe, I would be able to push down fairly easily, or the pushrod would be loose.

No can do.
Pushrods spin at tdc, no signs of being bent.
I don't see any wear on the spacers between the rockers, or on the brackets under the shaft bolts.

There does seem to be more side to side movement on #7, which is in the area of the ticking.

I thought for sure I'd be swapping a lifter or pushrod, now I'm stumped.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[fishmens67]

an egg shaped rocker could tick. the clearance will rattle on the shaft. just a thought, I've seen it happen.

 

[matthon]

I take it, egg shaped, means where the shaft goes thru it.

They all appear to have holes slightly larger than the shaft. I put a small led light on the top of each and I see the same sliver of light shine between the rocker and shaft.
A primitive way of trying to determine the problem.

I wish I had some spare rockers or valve cover to cut the top off.

#7 definitely has more side to side play, but I don't see the reason.

 

[jas0162]

Take the assembly off there and look it over good. That ain’t right. Does it oil ok when it’s running?

 

[RustyRatRod]

You will RARELY get a tick from rockers like you are moving them. Why not shoot a good video of it RUNNING and TICKING instead of a worthless one? That would be a lot better. So you're running stock paddle style rockers on aluminum heads. Did you get them set up correctly? How is the valve stem sweep and geometry? What cam and how much spring? If it's enough spring, you probably have a rocker about to punch through at the pushrod indention. A video with it actually running will be a big help.

 

[matthon]

It has great oil pressure and all the rockers have oil on them when I pull the cover.
I'm not sure if that answers the oil ok when running question.

Engine was done in 2012 by a local machine shop, dyno'd, and has been without issue.

I'll have to look up valve stem sweep and geometry to see how that is checked, new to me.

Below is the cam specs I was able to locate from when it was built.

I didn't want to run it with the cover off and get oil all over the place, but I'll do it for a short time to see what I can see.
I'll also shoot a longer video with it running with the cover on.

I thought if I shot a video of it running the comments would be, you're an idiot, that tells us nothing, pull the valve cover stupid!

When I did pull it, my brain went to the one of these things is not like the other mentality.

 

[Dicer]

They do make several styles of rocker arms clips to stop the oiling from gushing outward, these are the ones I have used before.

 

[jas0162]

Just take it apart and see whats wrong. It will probably be easy to spot.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Just take it apart and see whats wrong. It will probably be easy to spot.

I agree with this. ^^^^^^ Although, you can fire it up long enough for this: Start the engine with the cover off. Obviously you know what side the noise is on. With it idling, take your thumb and press HARD on each rocker on the pushrod side. When you get to the one where the noise goes away or gets quieter, there's your boy. Should take less than 30 seconds. Then you'll know which one to look at.

One last thing, IMO that's too much cam for stock rockers. It's been done, but the stock rockers really don't like much over a stock lift cam. I bet it's a rocker arm. I hope it is. That would be an easy fix. With new adjustable rockers. lol

 

[matthon]

Family stuff today, but I had a few minutes, pulled it out on the yard.

Tried the thumb trick and was unable to locate or make it stop.

My neighbor will probably call the epa on me though for the oil spill.

Took a few quick videos. It's definitely louder in person.

I will pull the rocker shaft asap and see what I can see.

 

[RustyRatRod]

It does sound valve train related......but I can still hear it underneath. Wouldn't hurt a thing to double check the converter bolts and inspect that the flex plate isn't cracked.

 

[matthon]

Yeah, underneath is bothering me.
4 speed, so would a loose pressure plate make the same noise?

 

[RustyRatRod]

Yeah, underneath is bothering me.
4 speed, so would a loose pressure plate make the same noise?

Maybe. Have you tried gently depressing the clutch to see if it changes?

 

[matthon]

Just did, it's hard to say. I think it changes, seems the same duration just more clear.
I can hear it when I open the door and look down.
Went around to the passenger side, I could faintly hear it in the front wheel well.

Stuck my phone under from the passenger side.

 

[matthon]

Pulled the cover, pressure plate bolts all tight, clutch, bearing, fork, flywheel all look fine. Ran it, tick isn't any louder, spinning true.

Pulled rockers/shaft. I don't see anything that stands out. Looks like normal wear, don't see any cracks.
Shaft looks fine.
Pulled pushrods, all look fine, none bent.
Valves/springs look fine.

Of course, I am not familiar with what everything should look like with normal use, but nothing slapping me in the face.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Take the pushrods out and look at where they pass through the holes in the heads. Sometimes the pushrods hit the heads in that area.

 

[matthon]

Done, no interference.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Done, no interference.

Have you looked closely at the guide to retainer clearance? I wouldn't think it would be an issue, but sometimes it happens at relatively low lifts.

 

[matthon]

Don't I need to have the springs off to do that?
Call me dumb, cause I am in this case.

 

[jas0162]

Just try a different set, see what happens. That’s what I’d do but I have a couple buckets full of those assemblies.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Don't I need to have the springs off to do that?
Call me dumb, cause I am in this case.

Not really. Get a rocker at max lift and take a look at how close the retainer is to the guide. You might have to get a mirror. I'm not talking about a specific measurement here. Just look for SPACE. Course it'll take a while to do 16.

 

[matthon]

So, lack of SPACE could mean what, the sound is from the valve opening too much?

I'm somewhere between completely frustrated, see below, and interested in what's behind the suggestions, just want to learn something dammit.

Fun fact, late last night my in tank pump decided to go from a regulated 58psi, holding there after priming, to 100psi when primed, making a horrible screeching sound, then back to 0, then banging off 95 when running.
After hours today, and not wanting to drop the tank, I think I figured it out, something must have been stuck in the forward throttle body.

 

[RustyRatRod]

So, lack of SPACE could mean what, the sound is from the valve opening too much?

I'm somewhere between completely frustrated, see below, and interested in what's behind the suggestions, just want to learn something dammit.

Fun fact, late last night my in tank pump decided to go from a regulated 58psi, holding there after priming, to 100psi when primed, making a horrible screeching sound, then back to 0, then banging off 95 when running.
After hours today, and not wanting to drop the tank, I think I figured it out, something must have been stuck in the forward throttle body.

Well no. The valve has to open however far the lobe tells it to. The noise would be coming from the retainer hitting the guide. In other words, to little machined space between the retainer and guide......which is very seriously doubt is the case with aftermarket aluminum heads. But since we're runnin outta things to check..........

 

[matthon]

I'm looking at the other side, cause I didn't put the driver's side back together yet, and I'm not seeing a lack of space, or a chance for a lack, I mean it's not a big gap and not easy to see.

I'm looking at the passenger side apart, looking for evidence of 'no space' damage, or something obvious, nothing.

Not sure if that's possible to even see.

I can put it back together tomorrow when I have more time to check.

I can't stop staring at these rockers, pushrods, etc, wtf is ticking!

I did run it w/o the belt on before, and checked the water pump and alternator, nothing. It has an in tank pump, so no mechanical pump.

 

[jas0162]

The rockers all look ok on the pad where they push on the valves? Also could be hitting the spring retainer on the bottom side. I was really expecting you to see something. Keep looking dude, you will figure it out!!