Tighter emmisions standards

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DFX 340 Duster said:
Well, being born (1955) and raised in California, I don't miss the good ol days of a reddish-brown sky, eyes tearing up i.
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Geezus effin' Karuieeest, you just don't get it, do ya?

I have no problem with modern cars, either

What WE are talking about here is the less that .000001% of cars on the road that are hot rods, and the less than a few hundred or thousand miles a year they get driven. DO YOU really THINK that with all the rest of the INDUSTRIAL pollution, that a couple of old hotrods out of thousands of cars need to be tromped on by Big Govt?

AND WORSE is states like AZ which have INVENTED tests on cars THAT NEVER HAD emissions equipment to start with!!!!

Even "up here" in the back woods, as I drive every day, I see VERY FEW and I do mean damn few cars, that are "pre" EFI. And we are talking here, about some guy hauling wood or other junk in his 20 year old pickup.

So to combat the 1 in how - many - ever - thousand, states suck money out of ya so they can suck on your tailpipe and charge you even MORE money.

So you're the big tree hugger, let's see YOUR classic car-------with ALL the factory smog equipment down to the last vacuum hose, and a photo of your last emissions test?
 
Ok, you got me there. I did not think about planet Kalifornia. And about the cleaner air in California. I visited my sister who lived in san Diego back in the mid 70's. On the way back I had to go through LA. No bull here, but when we descended into LA, you could see, literally see, when we went through the layer of smog. That reddish orange stuff was not nice. But it's too bad when the state wants you spend way more money than is necessary to comply with the law.
 
67Dart273 said:
Geezus effin' Karuieeest, you just don't get it, do ya?

I have no problem with modern cars, either

What WE are talking about here is the less that .000001% of cars on the road that are hot rods, and the less than a few hundred or thousand miles a year they get driven. DO YOU really THINK that with all the rest of the INDUSTRIAL pollution, that a couple of old hotrods out of thousands of cars need to be tromped on by Big Govt?

AND WORSE is states like AZ which have INVENTED tests on cars THAT NEVER HAD emissions equipment to start with!!!!

Even "up here" in the back woods, as I drive every day, I see VERY FEW and I do mean damn few cars, that are "pre" EFI. And we are talking here, about some guy hauling wood or other junk in his 20 year old pickup.

So to combat the 1 in how - many - ever - thousand, states suck money out of ya so they can suck on your tailpipe and charge you even MORE money.

So you're the big tree hugger, let's see YOUR classic car-------with ALL the factory smog equipment down to the last vacuum hose, and a photo of your last emissions test?
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Ah, I agree with you. I did write that CA law is way behind the technology. We Californian "car enthusiasts", "hot rodders", "car hobbyists", or whateveryouwanttocallus have been trying to get legislation changed because of the low number of pre EFI that get driven on the roads just as you so eloquently stated. I had to get rid of my 1987 Mazda truck because it could no longer pass smog. I was not allowed to stab my clean running 318 in it because it wasn't original even though it could pass the limits for the 4 banger. We would like that law changed. It is difficult to build political change in our legislature because there isn't a big enough public support. I bought my two classic cars knowing that CA law exempts pre 1974 cars from emission standards. I am not required to have original smog equipment present. I must confess that I hug my orange tree often because it produces the sweetest and most juiciest oranges that I have ever seen. One orange yields 1/2 cup or more of juice. Usually everyone has to peel and eat them over the sink because the juice runs down your arm or squirts all over the place. Oh, and I hug my grapefruit tree for the same reason.
 
67Dart273 said:
Believe me, if the manufacturers could have done this easier and simplier, "they would have." Honda, for example, experimented with (don't remember what it was called) a separate burn chamber in the head. Basically, the car manufacturers were brought kicking and screaming to the "emissions table" just like they were brought "kicking and screaming" to the "safety table."

Nobody cared about "you." "They" that is, "the thems" only cared about emissions (govt) and "the bottom line" (manufacturers)
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Mitsubihsi implemeted the separate burn chamber as 'MCA Jet' whcih was on the lable of some of their cars. That carried on well into the late 80's. If course, the tiny separate jet valve and chamber was an aggravation: the ticket on head durability on the Conquest/Starion 2.6L's was to buy an aftermarket head without the chambers.....
 
You guys ain't seen nothing yet.
Wait till Cap and Trade is introduced
across all the states.
When you get the bill for your carbon footprint
on every thing you use or purchase then you'll
really cry.

And why do you think most insurance on
historic cars have a mileage limit per year.
 
DFX 340 Duster said:
Well, being born (1955) and raised in California, I don't miss the good ol days of a reddish-brown sky, eyes tearing up when I went outside, painful aching lungs during sports, and not being able to see Catalina Island just 26 miles off the coast nor the Los Angeles Mountains just 30 miles away. Some of my friends who moved here from other states had the same complaints in their home cities. The smog pumps in CA cars beginning in 1966 actually were a blessing that was not really appreciated. The talk around SoCal was that the time table for the clean air standards would not allow the car manufacturers or the petroleum industry to meet those standards. The timing retardation was to address the NOx emissions that produced photo-chemical smog (burning eyes, aching lungs) and acid rain. Today's technology allows us to have greater horsepower and cleaner burning engines that could not be imagined back in the Muscle Car era. It is ironic that, in the beginning, technology was way behind CA law and now CA law is way behind technology. The original catalytic converters were made with Paladium and Silver. It was common to find out your cat was stolen in order to make money off the metal. Since then, zeolites (a form of Aluminum oxide) were developed that performed much better than the Paladium-Silver cats and were/are much cheaper to produce. CA law needs to be ammended to allow engine original equipment to be replaced by modern technology.It is nice to be able to breathe cleaner air, see without tearing, run without aching lungs, and to see Catalina or the mountains every day. All of that and I can buy a 500+ horsepower car that burns cleaner than the legendary elephant 426 street Hemi.
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please explain how pumping outside air into the exhaust changes what comes out? yes it says its "cleaner" because it diluted with forced oxygen, but the original combustion gas is still there, in the same amount...
 
Reality is that there is more pollution made in the manufacturing of 1 car than that car will make in it's life time.
Pollution from the machines that dig up the raw materials, to processes in making the raw materials into useable materials for the manufacture of the car....and so on....is all included.
 
805moparkid said:
please explain how pumping outside air into the exhaust changes what comes out? yes it says its "cleaner" because it diluted with forced oxygen, but the original combustion gas is still there, in the same amount...
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I used to think the same way, until the quarter dropped;
Pumping air into burning (remaining) fuel heats up it's temperature causing it to burn more unburned fuelparticles. THAT is what cleans up the exhaust fumes.

Same as reheating the BBQ coals by blowing fresh air into them.
 
BigBlockMopar said:
I used to think the same way, until the quarter dropped;
Pumping air into burning (remaining) fuel heats up it's temperature causing it to burn more unburned fuelparticles. THAT is what cleans up the exhaust fumes.

Same as reheating the BBQ coals by blowing fresh air into them.
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Thanks for explaining this, makes sense
 
Now there making us smog diesel trucks. There is no test just a shake down for 50 bucks. What a joke.

Every time the guy looks under my truck, sees my aftermarket exhaust and wants to tell me my truck failed because I don't have a cat. Then I get to tell him it never came with a cat so then he looks in his book and says O your right.
 
67Dart273 said:
Geezus effin' Karuieeest, you just don't get it, do ya?

I have no problem with modern cars, either

What WE are talking about here is the less that .000001% of cars on the road that are hot rods, and the less than a few hundred or thousand miles a year they get driven. DO YOU really THINK that with all the rest of the INDUSTRIAL pollution, that a couple of old hotrods out of thousands of cars need to be tromped on by Big Govt?

AND WORSE is states like AZ which have INVENTED tests on cars THAT NEVER HAD emissions equipment to start with!!!!

Even "up here" in the back woods, as I drive every day, I see VERY FEW and I do mean damn few cars, that are "pre" EFI. And we are talking here, about some guy hauling wood or other junk in his 20 year old pickup.

So to combat the 1 in how - many - ever - thousand, states suck money out of ya so they can suck on your tailpipe and charge you even MORE money.

So you're the big tree hugger, let's see YOUR classic car-------with ALL the factory smog equipment down to the last vacuum hose, and a photo of your last emissions test?
Click to expand...


If wanting to be able to breathe with out your lungs burning makes you a tree hugger then I am one as well. Lol


So it is not all bad but yes they do need reined in some.
 
Back to the OP, retarding timing will allow the use of lower octane fuel. Back in the day, we had 95 octane regular and 100+ octane premium. Along comes 87 octane no lead and rides start sounding like marimba bands when floored. I owned a 66 Dart GT 4-bbl with CAP. IIRC timing was retarded about 4º.
CichliDart said:
CVCC
My current smog problem here in Kalifornia is my 99 Dakota R/T. It barely failed the smog test. I wanted a new cat for it but they do not make them anymore! They stopped making them a few years ago and they were like $1200! So now my $25,000. truck sits in the driveway with no way to register it with out throwing myself on the mercy of the California air resources board smog referee station. :banghead:
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Try Rock Auto. They show a couple that are CARB compliant, $130 + the ride.
 
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