Timing/distributor question

[Pumpkinduster]

Hey all. I am working on my 318 in my 74 Duster. I’m in the process of switching to the hyper spark system. When I found TDC (this is a running engine) I noticed that my distributor is more pointing between 3&5 spark plug, had compression in the stroke and the balancer is at 0 with the timing mark. I have 10*. of timing advanced.
The first two pictures are at TDC and with the distributor it has been running. Next two is 10 after TDC

when I dropped the Hyperspark distributor in it came out the exact same spot.

If I roll the motor a little more where it is marked at 10* BTC it’s looking closer to the the number one cylinder. So I’m trying to figure out with installing the new distributor at TDC why I’m not pointing to cylinder 1. I know the distributor will have to be phased but that should only be after the rotor where I needed it. Any advice, I have a comp cam and a high volume oil pump. Should I just spin it over again until it’s back to TDC like before and just pull the oil shaft and rotate it until I get it where it needs to be?

 

[Plymouth 65]

You should be pointing at #1 cylinder, it's the front cylinder same side. You can rotate the oil pump intermediate shaft to correct it. Check the wires on the cap to make sure there correct. 65'

 

[Syleng1]

Make sure your balancer has not jumped.
Mechanically put the engine on tdc and then verify the balancer is on 0. If that’s the case the oil pump drive is off a tooth. Easy fix.

 

[pishta]

Having the rotor point at the #1 corner intake bolt is just what is suggested to get your vacuum pod in a manageable position. You can have the pod/body in any orientation as long as the plug wires line up to the matching rotor/reluctor position. Take a piston stop to #1 and verify TDC first

 

[krazykuda]

Some distributors are 90° off of the standard ones....

 

[67Dart273]

Sounds like balancer has slipped. Easy to tell, get/ make a piston stop

I made this one in the mid '70's and still have it

Remove plugs if you want, remove battery ground. Remove no1 plug, wrench engine until piston is "down a ways" and install stop

Gently wrench engine until piston stops rotation against the stop. Make a temporary mark under the 0 mark on the timing tab.

Repeat going CCW. You will now have two marks, and true TDC is halfway between

 

[AJ/FormS]

If it runs, it's a non-issue.

 

[AJ/FormS]

had compression in the stroke and the balancer is at 0 with the timing mark. I have 10*. of timing advanced.
The first two pictures are at TDC and with the distributor it has been running. Next two is 10 after TDC. The first two pictures are at TDC and with the distributor it has been running.

 

[Scody21]

The oil pump gear shaft maybe off a tooth. There’s only 2 ways a disto will drop in, on #1 or 180 out, but the gear / shaft will go in many different ways. Have the it at TDC and look down in the hole. The slot should be facing #1 as noted above. My ratty swinger has the rotor 180 and runs just fine…

 

[AJ/FormS]

There is only one way to change this;
You can pull the Distributor out and advance the oil-pump drive one or at most two teeth, drop the D back in still with the balancer at around 10 to 15 degrees advanced of #1TDC compression. If the rotor now points to around #1 cylinder, yur good.
Next push the Vcan all the way to the firewall, then advance it until the first vane on the reluctor aligns with the corresponding pole-piece. snug her down.
Next mark the outside of the D-housing as to where the rotor is exactly pointing. This will be where your #1 plugwire will have to go. Install the cap. Find your mark and make sure it under a tower. It cannot be more than ~1/3 the distance to the next nearest tower, else the spark will jump to another cylinder. If it is not, Something is wrong, it will have to be changed..
But if it is , then start the engine, and read the strobe, and reset the timing to whatever you need.
Next slowly rev the engine up, while watching the strobe, and the balance. You are looking for a smooth continuous advancing.If the strobing jumps around with random timing changes and or missed sparks, then one of two things is wrong;
1) your rotor is too far from the proper tower and the spark is going to random cylinders. This usually happens due to #2 below, but your rotor may need to be re-indexed.
2) the polarity of your pick-up is reversed. fix it, reset your idle timing and retest when done.
Like I said; if it runs and advances properly, it's a non-issue just leave it alone.

 

[crackedback]

You realize the numbers above the zero line on your timing cover are BTDC and the numbers below are ATDC (These numbers are of no use... LOL Except to find actual tdc using a stop)

That's why when you rolled it to 10* ATDC, the rotor got closer to the number 1 cylinder/intake bolt

 

[AJ/FormS]

You realize the numbers above the zero line on your timing cover are BTDC and the numbers below are ATDC (These numbers are of no use... LOL Except to find actual tdc using a stop)

That's why when you rolled it to 10* ATDC, the rotor got closer to the number 1 cylinder/intake bolt

good catch

 

[Pumpkinduster]

Used a stop and balancer is correct for timing mark, rotor was still off so I pulled the oil shaft and rotated it until I am pointing to the number 1 spark plug.
Should be good now I have to figure out how to get a 12v during crank and run with no drop. LOL

 

[67Dart273]

Used a stop and balancer is correct for timing mark, rotor was still off so I pulled the oil shaft and rotated it until I am pointing to the number 1 spark plug.
Should be good now I have to figure out how to get a 12v during crank and run with no drop. LOL

Simple.......bypass the ballast. This has been posted a guzullian times LOL. The key power "in run" comes to one end of the ballast, and if you have a 4 pin, that is the end where the two terminals are jumpered together. That power goes DEAD in cranking

The bypass circuit connects to the other end of the ballast, the terminal which leads to the coil+. that bypass circuit is usually brown, IGN2, and is hot in "start" just like the start wire, EXCEPT that it comes from a dedicated separate contact in the IGN switch. The IGN1 "run" and IGN2 "bypass" must be jumpered together and then feed the new system

 

[67Dart273]

If you don't have a 74 shop manual, PM me and you can mail me a USB stick in a "self return mailer" and I'll send you one The files are too large to upload without a server drop site of some sort, which I do not have

 

[Pumpkinduster]

Simple.......bypass the ballast. This has been posted a guzullian times LOL. The key power "in run" comes to one end of the ballast, and if you have a 4 pin, that is the end where the two terminals are jumpered together. That power goes DEAD in cranking

The bypass circuit connects to the other end of the ballast, the terminal which leads to the coil+. that bypass circuit is usually brown, IGN2, and is hot in "start" just like the start wire, EXCEPT that it comes from a dedicated separate contact in the IGN switch. The IGN1 "run" and IGN2 "bypass" must be jumpered together and then feed the new system

Funny I was just reading your replies on this other post Clean 12v switched source that is hot cranking and running

I was just thinking of adding a relay, just not the time delay. If I recall a normal relay will still keep the 12v from dropping since both IGN1 and IGN2 are being feed from the relay

 

[67Dart273]

^^ Not quite true. ^^ The key switch is still fed direct, what the relay is mainly for is to relieve load on the "run" circuit, and part of that problem is that if you don't, the voltage regulator is "low," and this causes overcharging. But during start, the IGN1 and ACC lines are dead, so the only thing the key is supplying is the small amperage of the ignition line in the engine bay, and the starter relay. If you still suffer much drop "to the ignition" during cranking, you will just about have to either install a second relay, or fix the entire drop problem

Id try it first by simply monitoring a voltmeter, connected to battery PLUS and the brown wire. This will tell you the total drop from battery to the brown circuit. If that is excessive, and if you are getting below 10.5V to the igntiion, there is a couple routes you can go

1.....If the drop is only through the bulkhead terminals, you can fix or bypass them
2......If the drop is partly / substantially through the ignition switch itself, you'll have to find a good igntion switch
3.......yet another work-around is to change the starter relay to the later "Jeep" style which has an additional contact. This contact can be wired to replace the brown bypass circuit

Notice the added terminal at far top left. The downside of this relay is that the nice big stud has been replaced by a different terminal.

4....Or you could add a second Bosch style relay wired to fire with the starter relay, and use that relay to operate the brown bypass circuit

AGAIN I WANT TO emphasize, I would first check this and be certain that is needed.

 

[Pumpkinduster]

^^ Not quite true. ^^ The key switch is still fed direct, what the relay is mainly for is to relieve load on the "run" circuit, and part of that problem is that if you don't, the voltage regulator is "low," and this causes overcharging. But during start, the IGN1 and ACC lines are dead, so the only thing the key is supplying is the small amperage of the ignition line in the engine bay, and the starter relay. If you still suffer much drop "to the ignition" during cranking, you will just about have to either install a second relay, or fix the entire drop problem

Id try it first by simply monitoring a voltmeter, connected to battery PLUS and the brown wire. This will tell you the total drop from battery to the brown circuit. If that is excessive, and if you are getting below 10.5V to the igntiion, there is a couple routes you can go

1.....If the drop is only through the bulkhead terminals, you can fix or bypass them
2......If the drop is partly / substantially through the ignition switch itself, you'll have to find a good igntion switch
3.......yet another work-around is to change the starter relay to the later "Jeep" style which has an additional contact. This contact can be wired to replace the brown bypass circuit

Notice the added terminal at far top left. The downside of this relay is that the nice big stud has been replaced by a different terminal.

View attachment 1715866252

4....Or you could add a second Bosch style relay wired to fire with the starter relay, and use that relay to operate the brown bypass circuit

AGAIN I WANT TO emphasize, I would first check this and be certain that is needed.

I will go through this after work, but I will need to do something as the handheld reboots once I let the key drop from crank to run, so will need to keep that live. I may PM you directly if I need some clarification later.