I do remember that one.. LOL. They can sit in their driveways worrying about it, while I'll be 500 miles away from home cruising in a classic!
Tired of junk thermostats. Going with NOS. Do I need to drill a hole in in?
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If you see a guy with a large piece of cardboard in front of his grill on a 90* day, you'll know he drilled a small hole in his thermostat and he can't get his engine up to temp....It won't if you drill through the t stat housing to get to the T stat.
If you see a guy with a large piece of cardboard in front of his grill on a 90* day, you'll know he drilled a small hole in his thermostat and he can't get his engine up to temp....
I was a tech. at a chrysler dealership when the 2.2L came out. Replaced a lot of head gaskets (leaking oil) and timing belts on those 2.2L engines over the years I worked there. Still have the special weighted wrench in my tool box for the belt eccentric. lol
Got pretty good at r&r the cylinder head on those. One thing that saved alot of time on the job was bleeding the cooling system when refilling the cooing system. None of that time wasting drama of an antifreeze geyser coming out of the radiator while it's trying to heat the air lock hot enough to open the thermostat. Like you also described. When bled properly you just start it up and let it idle while you put your tools away. Top it off after the thermostat opens and your done. Never had to drill a hole in the thermostat.
And yes the bleed plug wouldn't come out of those even when they were brand new. For awhile I fought them and heated them with a torch. Then I figured out taking the temp sensor worked fine and the sensor tended not to be stuck. Boy, that brings back memories.
turbo cars... I remember dropping a 1/2 second off the 1/4 mile time by going to the pet store and spending 3 dollars... LOL that's when hot-rodding was affordable
I was test driving a 2.2 turbo, service manager said the customer (little old lady) reports that the car cuts out. I couldn't get it to act up. Being a young man then I put the gas to the floor and to my surprise the car torque steered, spun the tires, nailed me back in the seat and about as as fast as all that happened the car shut off like someone turned off the key. Turned out the hose came off the waste gate if I remember correctly. Turbos had a bmap sensor and if they over boost the computer shuts the off.
Monitor 2000. lol
fuel pump shut off at 15 psi of boost. They ran 7 psi from the factory (turbo I). I used to order the MP EC that was behind the passenger kick panel, it was 125 bucks. That brought you to 11 psi, then I put the pet shop 3 dollar piece and would run 14.5 psi. Never lost to a 5.0 fox body, of course most you met then were stock. We did the turbo Caravelle, LeBaron, New Yorker, I also had a '91 spirit R/T turbo 4. C/S Daytona as well.
A kid at the track added a intercooler and a 5th injector on his 600, and was well into the 13's. We were at 14's with ours. I mean, we are talkin' some young guys in the early 20's doing absolutely nickel budget builds and beating Iroc cameros and GT 'stangs.. they hated 4 door granny cars beating their expensive V8 RWD sport cars lol
I have (2) Monitor 4000E's, & an old Vetronix Mastertech, turning the fan on via actuator will only exacerbate it. Unplugging & pulling the coolant sensor just to fill a car with coolant and prevent the airlock proves that the hole is worth drilling......not to mention how many heads were wrecked when the head gaskets went bad,...the combustion gas would perform the same issue as the airlock, trapped gas once the coolant level dropped prevented the thermo from opening, & the temp sensor would get intermittant splashes of coolant. Guess what happens when there's a tiny 1/16" hole at the top of the thermostat?? All that gas bleeds right out and into the overflow, & as long as the recovery tank has coolant in it, head doesn't get cooked until repairs are made.
I know some guys that worked at dealerships, I did at a C-P-D in '86, 3-man job....they'd yank the bolts, 2 guys held the head up, the 3rd popped yanked & slipped the new one in.....down it went & they dropped & cranked down the screws.......the "good ol' days".......
I agree about the fan, at least I don't see how turning on the fan would help.I have (2) Monitor 4000E's, & an old Vetronix Mastertech, turning the fan on via actuator will only exacerbate it. Unplugging & pulling the coolant sensor just to fill a car with coolant and prevent the airlock proves that the hole is worth drilling......not to mention how many heads were wrecked when the head gaskets went bad,...the combustion gas would perform the same issue as the airlock, trapped gas once the coolant level dropped prevented the thermo from opening, & the temp sensor would get intermittant splashes of coolant. Guess what happens when there's a tiny 1/16" hole at the top of the thermostat?? All that gas bleeds right out and into the overflow, & as long as the recovery tank has coolant in it, head doesn't get cooked until repairs are made.
I know some guys that worked at dealerships, I did at a C-P-D in '86, 3-man job....they'd yank the bolts, 2 guys held the head up, the 3rd popped yanked & slipped the new one in.....down it went & they dropped & cranked down the screws.......the "good ol' days".......
Let's assume that drilling a hole in the thermostat has some benefits and no downside. I can't think of a reason why Chrysler didn't spec a thermostat with an extra hole in it. Or put out a TSB directing techs to drill a hole in the thermostat. For many years they used the same too small of a hole design. Even today thermostat manufacturers are still using the same design as replacement for those vehicles.
I did a comparison between a Robert Shaw high flow racing thermostat and a production oem replacement thermostat. The oem thermostat has a .037" ish bypass hole in it. The racing stat has three .170" bypass holes in it. In a non scientific "put it up to my mouth and blow through it" test, with the three bypass holes the racing stat feels like it bypasses about yhe same as the oem stat. It makes me wonder if the factory thinks it's ok to put three.170" holes in the racing stat why are they only putting one .037" hole in the oem stat?
Other than the amount of patience required, the .037" hole is fine if it is present & positioned correctly, but if one is dealing with other aftermarket ones then I probably wouldn't recommend they break off a tiny 1/32" bit so.....
slantsixdan
=..=
Don't let's, because that's not so.
Many OE thermostats had a notch in the valve that was very small, and completely adequate to do the only thing this kind of hole or notch can do, which is provide an escape path for trapped air. Not a big deal because unlike more modern motors, the Mopar A-LA-B-RB-G-RG-Hemi engines don't tend to trap much (or any) air, and what little might get trapped gets burped out after one or two thermostat-openings.
If you've got air pockets forming around the thermostat's wax pellet during engine operation…brother, you've got wayyyyyyy bigger problems than the number and size of holes in your thermostat.
Because they generally didn't put out TSBs directing techs to make non-fixes for non-problems.
Horseѕhit. "Too small" because 92b says so? Pfft. Millions of Mopars with stock thermostats exhibit none of the problems you're imagining are caused by not enough/not big enough holez.
Or, to put it more accurately, thermostat makers are still using the same perfectly functional design.
I can think of a couple of reasons:
• The factory (Chrysler) didn't spec or install "racing" thermostats.
• Even if there were really a thing such as a "racing thermostat"*, racing is not the same as street-driving, so parts optimized for the one aren't necessarily best for the other.
* I have a Dymo™ labelmaker, and I've gotten extra super fast at crankin' out peel-and-stick labels that say RACING. I have a RACING keyboard and mouse, a RACING refrigerator, oven, and dishwasher, a can of RACING oven cleaner, and a RACING wallet. None of 'em works very well day-to-day, because I drilled more and bigger holes in 'em, but that's what it takes to go RACING. When I made these I used RACING bacon, RACING beans – drilling three holes in each bean was a tiresome bіtch of a job, but that's what it takes to go RACING – and as you can see I used a RACING spoon with four slots, which is even more better than three holes bcuz three is more than four and "slots" sounds like "sluts" (on the other hand, "holes" sounds like "holes", so that one's prolly a wash).
Now: let's all step up our game. C'mon, there's only 65 posts here! We can do better than that!
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I have the MP upgrade LogicModule & cam for the earlier Turbo I's, will accommodate nominal boost of 11psi, not sure if the shut-off is set the same. I DO know that redlining My '88 ShelbyZ at max boost too long in 2nd gear resulted in an extremely RUDE shut down that almost bounced My face off the steering wheel,...lol.
Sorry @cruiser for the 2.2/2.5L tangent,.....
Stop it. I'm dyin over here.Don't let's, because that's not so.
Many OE thermostats had a notch in the valve that was very small, and completely adequate to do the only thing this kind of hole or notch can do, which is provide an escape path for trapped air. Not a big deal because unlike more modern motors, the Mopar A-LA-B-RB-G-RG-Hemi engines don't tend to trap much (or any) air, and what little might get trapped gets burped out after one or two thermostat-openings.
If you've got air pockets forming around the thermostat's wax pellet during engine operation…brother, you've got wayyyyyyy bigger problems than the number and size of holes in your thermostat.
Because they generally didn't put out TSBs directing techs to make non-fixes for non-problems.
Horseѕhit. "Too small" because 92b says so? Pfft. Millions of Mopars with stock thermostats exhibit none of the problems you're imagining are caused by not enough/not big enough holez.
Or, to put it more accurately, thermostat makers are still using the same perfectly functional design.
I can think of a couple of reasons:
• The factory (Chrysler) didn't spec or install "racing" thermostats.
• Even if there were really a thing such as a "racing thermostat"*, racing is not the same as street-driving, so parts optimized for the one aren't necessarily best for the other.
* I have a Dymo™ labelmaker, and I've gotten extra super fast at crankin' out peel-and-stick labels that say RACING. I have a RACING keyboard and mouse, a RACING refrigerator, oven, and dishwasher, a can of RACING oven cleaner, and a RACING wallet. None of 'em works very well day-to-day, because I drilled more and bigger holes in 'em, but that's what it takes to go RACING. When I made these I used RACING bacon, RACING beans – drilling three holes in each bean was a tiresome bіtch of a job, but that's what it takes to go RACING – and as you can see I used a RACING spoon with four slots, which is even more better than three holes bcuz three is more than four and "slots" sounds like "sluts" (on the other hand, "holes" sounds like "holes", so that one's prolly a wash).
Now: let's all step up our game. C'mon, there's only 65 posts here! We can do better than that!
Agree
Agree
Agree. I was referring to after a refill. Should have been more clear.
Agree.
Agree
Agree
Agree
I disagree!!!! And that damn keyboard salesman tole Me I had the only true Racing Keyboard on the Planet,......Don't let's, because that's not so.
Many OE thermostats had a notch in the valve that was very small, and completely adequate to do the only thing this kind of hole or notch can do, which is provide an escape path for trapped air. Not a big deal because unlike more modern motors, the Mopar A-LA-B-RB-G-RG-Hemi engines don't tend to trap much (or any) air, and what little might get trapped gets burped out after one or two thermostat-openings.
If you've got air pockets forming around the thermostat's wax pellet during engine operation…brother, you've got wayyyyyyy bigger problems than the number and size of holes in your thermostat.
Because they generally didn't put out TSBs directing techs to make non-fixes for non-problems.
Horseѕhit. "Too small" because 92b says so? Pfft. Millions of Mopars with stock thermostats exhibit none of the problems you're imagining are caused by not enough/not big enough holez.
Or, to put it more accurately, thermostat makers are still using the same perfectly functional design.
I can think of a couple of reasons:
• The factory (Chrysler) didn't spec or install "racing" thermostats.
• Even if there were really a thing such as a "racing thermostat"*, racing is not the same as street-driving, so parts optimized for the one aren't necessarily best for the other.
* I have a Dymo™ labelmaker, and I've gotten extra super fast at crankin' out peel-and-stick labels that say RACING. I have a RACING keyboard and mouse, a RACING refrigerator, oven, and dishwasher, a can of RACING oven cleaner, and a RACING wallet. None of 'em works very well day-to-day, because I drilled more and bigger holes in 'em, but that's what it takes to go RACING. When I made these I used RACING bacon, RACING beans – drilling three holes in each bean was a tiresome bіtch of a job, but that's what it takes to go RACING – and as you can see I used a RACING spoon with four slots, which is even more better than three holes bcuz three is more than four and "slots" sounds like "sluts" (on the other hand, "holes" sounds like "holes", so that one's prolly a wash).
Now: let's all step up our game. C'mon, there's only 65 posts here! We can do better than that!
Slantsix64
Well-Known Member
Just go into a junk yard and pull out a stock thermostat from a magnum 5.2 or 5.9 engine, out of a Durango or ram truck they came from the factory with 195 degree t stats. clean it up and run it.
The R/Shaw t'stats had three 3/16" holes in them because they were used in Stewart water pumps. These pumps had the bypass eliminated. Factory pumps have a bypass for two reasons:
- engine warms up quicker because some returning hot water gets diverted to the feed side of the pump. This reduces warm up time, getting the engine to operating sooner, a good thing.
- provides a pressure bypass if the stat jams shut.
It is NOT a good idea to run one of these stats with a normal pump. It increases warm up time, which is always bad for engine wear & fuel consumption.
- engine warms up quicker because some returning hot water gets diverted to the feed side of the pump. This reduces warm up time, getting the engine to operating sooner, a good thing.
- provides a pressure bypass if the stat jams shut.
It is NOT a good idea to run one of these stats with a normal pump. It increases warm up time, which is always bad for engine wear & fuel consumption.
Interesting, have a pic of said pump?
SixPaksRule
Well-Known Member
How many Rshaw stats have you run on the street?
Been running then for years, no problems with "warm up time"
Accelerated engine wear is caused by fools running 180 and 160 thermostats
Been running then for years, no problems with "warm up time"
Accelerated engine wear is caused by fools running 180 and 160 thermostats
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Oh man... you do not want to go down the mechanical keyboard fanatics rabbit hole. There are some pretty insane keyboard builds there.I disagree!!!! And that damn keyboard salesman tole Me I had the only true Racing Keyboard on the Planet,......
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