Can someone explain the difference to me and what might be the different applications for both. Looking at the control freaks 8-3/4 system for my valiant,Most time street driven but also want to hit some road race courses with the car--Thanks Steve
Triangulated or Panhard bar??????
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
A link to what you are asking about would have been pretty damn handy, so I guess this?
[ame]http://www.freakride.com/2013_mopar.pdf[/ame]
"Triangulated" the two locator bars on each side form a triangle--- the front mounting points are one point, the inboard arm one side, it's mounting point on the axle another point, and the axle outer tube the second side of the triangle. The mounting point for the the outboard arm is the last triangular point, and the outer arm the last side, it's other end back to the starting place
So there's one on each side.
The whole deal with a Panhard, is that it MUST have the pivot points mounted as close as possible to an inline condition with the axle, else side -- to -- side movement is gonna occur as the thing moves. This can introduce (not sure of the terminology) but same difference as bump steer, etc.
[ame]http://www.freakride.com/2013_mopar.pdf[/ame]
"Triangulated" the two locator bars on each side form a triangle--- the front mounting points are one point, the inboard arm one side, it's mounting point on the axle another point, and the axle outer tube the second side of the triangle. The mounting point for the the outboard arm is the last triangular point, and the outer arm the last side, it's other end back to the starting place
So there's one on each side.
The whole deal with a Panhard, is that it MUST have the pivot points mounted as close as possible to an inline condition with the axle, else side -- to -- side movement is gonna occur as the thing moves. This can introduce (not sure of the terminology) but same difference as bump steer, etc.
Thanks but didn't know how to post that link--still the question is--what application suits the panhard bar--and what application suits the triangulated--Thanks for the fast response . Is the triangulated better suited to strait on drag racing not worring about side to side shifting of the rear end and the panhard would be better suited to something like road racing where the body is being pushed and pulled side ti side from the hard corning--Thanks Steve
Both do nothing more than keep the rear end centered as the suspension goes up and down in a 4-bar rear suspension
I like the concept of the triangulated rear, but the shortfalls for our A bodies (to me anyways) is the stock floorpan requires the upper bars to be shorter than the lower bars. as the suspension moves up and down, the pinion angle can change dramatically. The more suspension travel you have....the more pinion angle change.
also the upper bars angleing inward removes valuable tailpipe/ muffler area.
The shortfall of the panard bar is the space needed for it, (usually above or behind the center section) and there will still be some slight side to side movement. The amount of movement can be kept at a minimum by utilizing as long a panard bar as possible.
I voted for the panard bar because of I wanted to run a full exhaust w/ tailpipes tucked up....but I moved the rear forward 1.5" to accommodate the coilovers and panard bar while maintaining my stock fuel tank and spare tire well
I like the concept of the triangulated rear, but the shortfalls for our A bodies (to me anyways) is the stock floorpan requires the upper bars to be shorter than the lower bars. as the suspension moves up and down, the pinion angle can change dramatically. The more suspension travel you have....the more pinion angle change.
also the upper bars angleing inward removes valuable tailpipe/ muffler area.
The shortfall of the panard bar is the space needed for it, (usually above or behind the center section) and there will still be some slight side to side movement. The amount of movement can be kept at a minimum by utilizing as long a panard bar as possible.
I voted for the panard bar because of I wanted to run a full exhaust w/ tailpipes tucked up....but I moved the rear forward 1.5" to accommodate the coilovers and panard bar while maintaining my stock fuel tank and spare tire well
ir3333
Well-Known Member
both systems prevent lateral movement and both are adjustable.
the 4 link style have an extra bar and is what we used on hotrods back in the day,the stock rubber bushed '65 chev sedan worked fine.
..i'm not qualified to say which is better
the 4 link style have an extra bar and is what we used on hotrods back in the day,the stock rubber bushed '65 chev sedan worked fine.
..i'm not qualified to say which is better
the configuration of your 4-bars....be it parrallel or triangulated.... is what makes it work for drag race or road course
drag racing usually use bar length and instant center to tune for bite/traction where I see the road course guys tend to use the upper bar and where it attaches to the body to tune for cornering and traction....you can do both with a either set-up, providing the body attaching points are there.
drag racing usually use bar length and instant center to tune for bite/traction where I see the road course guys tend to use the upper bar and where it attaches to the body to tune for cornering and traction....you can do both with a either set-up, providing the body attaching points are there.
Thanks Denny as you know i will be teaming this with your HDK front system,Just started to research what i want to do with the rear--Do you have something in the shadows?????? Steve--See you in a couple day's
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
The RMS street lynx allows use of full tti tail pipes as long as you are using the 8 3/4 rear...
excellent!
mischiefdart
Well-Known Member
If you are serious about running your car on the track I would consider a parallel four link with watts linkage instead of a panhard rod. I am no good at posting links but if you google image it gou can see what it looks like. They offer true up and down motion instead of the arc you get with a panhard rod. The triangulated four link is ok but I can't think of any purpose built roadrace cars that use it. It offers good control for low production cost which is why it is on so many street production cars.
ir3333
Well-Known Member
..set up properly,parallel bars should maintain pinion angle
72BBSwinger
Well-Known Member
3-link and Watts gets my vote. Or a torque arm and Watts. It really depends what you want out of your car.
my advice....do not out trick yourself...K.I.S.S.
a friend once told me his mom wouldn't let him go in the deep water until he knew how to swim.....a good rule to follow. You are wise to ask questions and study up before pulling the pin.
a friend once told me his mom wouldn't let him go in the deep water until he knew how to swim.....a good rule to follow. You are wise to ask questions and study up before pulling the pin.
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
Fail to plan is a plan to fail
Read page 12 of [ame]http://www.freakride.com/2013_mopar.pdf[/ame] claim that a 3" tail pipe will clear a Dana 60....from what I remember you have to use an 8 3/4 or a 9" with Bills system...or least that is what the literature stated that I read a few months back....
Read page 12 of [ame]http://www.freakride.com/2013_mopar.pdf[/ame] claim that a 3" tail pipe will clear a Dana 60....from what I remember you have to use an 8 3/4 or a 9" with Bills system...or least that is what the literature stated that I read a few months back....
Zuluman
Well-Known Member
I purchased both new front- and rear suspension systems from "Control Freak" and am very happy with my purchase. I chose the the rear axle (modified Ford 9") with the Panhard rod, as I plan to do more road driving. Yes, a Watt's linkage would provide better lateral location through most of the suspension's travel than the Panhard rod but I've not seen a system offered with the Watt's linkage. In any event, the settings are so firm that suspension travel is reduced from the original factory rear leaf-spring suspension, so the benefit from a Watt's linkage would not be noticeable to the average driver.
I also find that the "Control Freak" systems are more robust than the 2 link axle offered by RMS. For the rear axle, the coil-over dampers are more accessable for adjustment, as they are located behind the centre-line rather before it. The parts came together easily and quickly. Also, I found that the Magnaflow 2-1/4" builder's kit cleared all suspension parts without any problems.
Here are some pictures of how these installed in my car..
Might be worth posting this on the Mopax yahoo group (Mopar road racers/autocrossers)
Zuluman
Well-Known Member
I do have an issue with the rear suspension but it does not involve the Panhard rod. There seems to be sufficient space and, in my case, it is connected to the lowest of 4 points on the bracket.
The right rear seems to hit the bump-stop whilst the left rear does not. 225pound coils (vs the 200-s I currently have) were suggested as a fix. I'm not sure that is the solution. I plan to check the right rear settings shortly. There seems to be a slight asymmetry to my current set up.
Didn't even see the bumpstops....normally they are on the framerail right where your chassis panard bracket is welded on, but that chassis bracket sure hangs down low....ya sure that is not where you are having contact?.
just spitballin....
just spitballin....
Zuluman
Well-Known Member
I spent the day under the car yesterday and noticed a few things that required correction ; a slight reroute of a rear brake line (right side) and a bit more space between the petrol tank and the differential housing being 2 things I noted.
Then I checked the right rear suspension and the fix seems simple ; the mounting bracket for the Panhard rod will hit the casting of the rear axle as there is less than 2" of space between the two. Other than that, the settings are perfect.
There seems to be some allowance to cut off from the bracket itself. I'll check with the manufacturer first and then proceed with the "amputation" if he gives his blessing.
Zuluman
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