Looking to purchased a set of tubular upper control arms for my 72 Dart. I will be running 18x9 wheels on it thus the need for the control arms. I know that Firm Feel, Hotchkis, RMS, POL, and Qa1 make them and there minor differences in design and the use of heim joints versus bushings. I am looking for feedback/advantages from one to another from those of you that have them and have ran them on your A bodies.
Tubular upper control arms-would like feedback on different brands
- Thread starter lee g
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All of those are good companies, and I think you'd have a hard time going wrong with any of them. But, if you want "splitting hairs"-
Avoid heim joints for a street car. For a track only car, or a car that will never see any kind of inclement weather or lots of miles, it probably won't matter. I have a set of Hotchkis UCA's on my Challenger. The first set of heims (without boots) lasted 7k miles before they wore out. Hotchkis was gracious enough to replace them at no charge and set me their new heim boots as well. But, after another 7k miles I don't think they'll last until 10k miles. Heim joints are a wearing part, and they're really not intended for lots of dirt, grime, water, etc. So, on a street car they have an even shorter life than they would normally. It just gets annoying if you have to change the heim joints and re-do the alignment every year or so. Or even every 2-3 years or so. Just depends on what your threshold is there.
Pay attention to the shape of the control arm, especially with an 18x9. With that wide of a rim the width of the UCA comes into play, you can run into interference at the rim/UCA when you're at full steering lock with the suspension completely unloaded. That happens even with stock UCA's. Pretty much all the UCA's out there now are "V" shaped (some of the old designs were "U" shaped, and they interfere worse than stockers). But some have a tighter angle than others. Firm Feel makes great stuff, but their UCA's have a little wider V shape with a bend very close to where the interference point is. I don't have a set to confirm if they hit or clear with 18x9's though. Same with the QA1's, they're a little wider but I haven't personally checked them. The other thing that comes up is that on the UCA's with really tight "V" shapes (straight tubes with no bends) is that you have to trim part of the UCA mount back for clearance, like this...
And then there's adjustable vs non-adjustable. Most of the adjustable arms have heims, but not all. Most of the adjustable arms are only single adjustable, meaning, they have to be unbolted from the car to be adjusted. Magnumforce sells a double adjustable UCA, which can be adjusted on the car, but it has heims. The SPC arms sold by Peter Bergman (Bergman AutoCraft) are double adjustable and have delrin bushings.
That's pretty much everything I know about them
Avoid heim joints for a street car. For a track only car, or a car that will never see any kind of inclement weather or lots of miles, it probably won't matter. I have a set of Hotchkis UCA's on my Challenger. The first set of heims (without boots) lasted 7k miles before they wore out. Hotchkis was gracious enough to replace them at no charge and set me their new heim boots as well. But, after another 7k miles I don't think they'll last until 10k miles. Heim joints are a wearing part, and they're really not intended for lots of dirt, grime, water, etc. So, on a street car they have an even shorter life than they would normally. It just gets annoying if you have to change the heim joints and re-do the alignment every year or so. Or even every 2-3 years or so. Just depends on what your threshold is there.
Pay attention to the shape of the control arm, especially with an 18x9. With that wide of a rim the width of the UCA comes into play, you can run into interference at the rim/UCA when you're at full steering lock with the suspension completely unloaded. That happens even with stock UCA's. Pretty much all the UCA's out there now are "V" shaped (some of the old designs were "U" shaped, and they interfere worse than stockers). But some have a tighter angle than others. Firm Feel makes great stuff, but their UCA's have a little wider V shape with a bend very close to where the interference point is. I don't have a set to confirm if they hit or clear with 18x9's though. Same with the QA1's, they're a little wider but I haven't personally checked them. The other thing that comes up is that on the UCA's with really tight "V" shapes (straight tubes with no bends) is that you have to trim part of the UCA mount back for clearance, like this...
And then there's adjustable vs non-adjustable. Most of the adjustable arms have heims, but not all. Most of the adjustable arms are only single adjustable, meaning, they have to be unbolted from the car to be adjusted. Magnumforce sells a double adjustable UCA, which can be adjusted on the car, but it has heims. The SPC arms sold by Peter Bergman (Bergman AutoCraft) are double adjustable and have delrin bushings.
- Hotchkis: adjustable, has heims, beautiful craftsmanship, most expensive too
- Firm Feel: non-adjustable, bushings, slightly wider shape, comes with new bump stops
- RMS: adjustable, has heims, slightly wider shape like FF
- QA1: non-adjustable, bushings, wider shape, has bump stop pad
- Magnumforce (3 kinds):
- adjustable- has heims, very wide shape
- double adjustable- has heims, can be adjusted on the car, tight "V" (unlike their single adjustables)
- non-adjustable- bushed, very tight "V" requires trimming, very good rim clearance
- PST (2):
- adjustable- heims, wide shape
- non-adjustable- bushed, tight "V", FABO discount
- SPC by BAC: double adjustable with more adjustment, bushed with delrin bushings, tight "V", price doesn't include ball joints. Peter is a member here (GMachineDartGT), and uses his product's on the track with his '71 Dart GT. Great stuff!
That's pretty much everything I know about them
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No problem! Nothing wrong with having a street-only car, despite the fairly aggressive set up on my Duster that's all it's been so far.
I see that I forgot the POL uca's. Probably because I don't know anything at all about them beyond the picture on the internet. They look exactly like the PST and Magnumforce non-adjustable, bushed arms. They may even be manufactured by one of them, I don't know. Looks like a Ford and Chevy place primarily. Never done business with them and I don't know of anyone running those UCA's, unlike the other's I listed. All the UCA's I listed above I have either own, run, or have at the very least seen an installation/review from someone I trust to provide good info.
For what you're planning the PST arms would probably be your best choice. No worries about rim to UCA clearance but maybe a little trimming on the UCA mount. They're a proven company, they have a presence here on FABO and they offer a discount. Firm Feel would be my next choice, just because of their longtime support and great products. But with an 18x9 the clearance issue might come up. I can't recall anyone currently running 18x9's with the FFI UCA's. I know I talked to someone about it awhile back, but I think they ended up running a different UCA. Can't find the info so maybe someone will chime in. That's my only concern with the FFI UCA's, and on anything narrower than a 9" wide rim it wouldn't be a problem. It may not be an issue, but they're slightly different from what I know works.
The SPC UCA's from Peter Bergman at BAC are probably the best thing out there right now as far as function goes. Their range of adjustability is amazing, I think Peter's running like +8* of caster on his car (power steering of course). And I think the Delrin bushings are the best option for the street too. Better than poly and much longer lasting than heims. I think the price is the only negative. And I'm not saying they aren't priced fairly, they're cheaper than Hotchkis UCA's and offer more adjustment, so really they're a great deal. Just more expensive than the non-adjustables, and for a street only car the non-adjustables are just fine. Not to mention they're just simpler, less adjustments to worry about. If you're not doing your own alignments it's something else you have to explain to the person that is doing your alignments. Nothing all that hard about using them, but it requires more work/ability/knowledge than just turning the camber bolts.
I see that I forgot the POL uca's. Probably because I don't know anything at all about them beyond the picture on the internet. They look exactly like the PST and Magnumforce non-adjustable, bushed arms. They may even be manufactured by one of them, I don't know. Looks like a Ford and Chevy place primarily. Never done business with them and I don't know of anyone running those UCA's, unlike the other's I listed. All the UCA's I listed above I have either own, run, or have at the very least seen an installation/review from someone I trust to provide good info.
For what you're planning the PST arms would probably be your best choice. No worries about rim to UCA clearance but maybe a little trimming on the UCA mount. They're a proven company, they have a presence here on FABO and they offer a discount. Firm Feel would be my next choice, just because of their longtime support and great products. But with an 18x9 the clearance issue might come up. I can't recall anyone currently running 18x9's with the FFI UCA's. I know I talked to someone about it awhile back, but I think they ended up running a different UCA. Can't find the info so maybe someone will chime in. That's my only concern with the FFI UCA's, and on anything narrower than a 9" wide rim it wouldn't be a problem. It may not be an issue, but they're slightly different from what I know works.
The SPC UCA's from Peter Bergman at BAC are probably the best thing out there right now as far as function goes. Their range of adjustability is amazing, I think Peter's running like +8* of caster on his car (power steering of course). And I think the Delrin bushings are the best option for the street too. Better than poly and much longer lasting than heims. I think the price is the only negative. And I'm not saying they aren't priced fairly, they're cheaper than Hotchkis UCA's and offer more adjustment, so really they're a great deal. Just more expensive than the non-adjustables, and for a street only car the non-adjustables are just fine. Not to mention they're just simpler, less adjustments to worry about. If you're not doing your own alignments it's something else you have to explain to the person that is doing your alignments. Nothing all that hard about using them, but it requires more work/ability/knowledge than just turning the camber bolts.
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I have a set of QA1's for my 70 duster but it's several years from being on the road!!!
Thanks for the information. 72bluNblu I did notice that the POL upper control arms look exactly like the PST and the magnum force non-adjustable control arms but are a little bit cheaper. I may pull the trigger on a set this weekend but I need to run through my wheel fitment at full lock and suspension travel one more time. Thanks again for the information to all that responded.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
i know the adjustable strut rods that PST sells are just a RMS piece with a pst sticker on it.. those upper arms look like RMS arms too.
If you have questions on the tubular arms that we offer. Please let me know. Secondly if you choose to go ahead with PST Tubular arms. Remember to use you forum member discount. Our arms are made in the USA.
Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
1-800-247-2288
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