turbo 6 bangers post here

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memike said:
Well I am happy you have the time and patients and knowledge to keep moving forward Aaron, Bill and Freddie are moving forward after a few steps back :coffee2: You all amaze me at the work/fun you all put into these /6 engines I truly love, and always will keep my eye on all the frustrations and care that is being posted here :cheers: Keep up the good work men :headbang:
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Memike and Aaron...


To answer some of your questions, no, Memike, we never write anything down, so the particulars of this build are just in our swiss-cheese memories... That's a mistake, I know, but we just didn't do it... Shame on us.

The break-in was just for the cam and apparently it worked because all those 12 lifters still look like new on their rubbing faces. I couldn't believe how good they looked.... it was the one encouraging thing we encountered.

The break-in (cylinder-sealing) must have worked because we have checked the compression at least four different times over the months this thing has been together, and it has always been 160-165 pounds on all cylinders.... until now.:disgust:

Aaron, we are going to try to O-Ring the block with the engine in the car. Tom did his like that, and said there is no problem doing it that way. I'll order the tool from Isky, tomorrow. We have the Fel-Pro gasket, like yours.

Loved the way the Toad sounds!!! I can't wait for video of the launch... :):burnout:
 
Aw dang now im depressed bill . Still rooting for you my friend ......... bet you thought i forgot bout you lol . Keep plugin away at it you will get it !
 
Bill Dedman said:
Aaron

Aaron, we are going to try to O-Ring the block with the engine in the car. Tom did his like that, and said there is no problem doing it that way. I'll order the tool from Isky, tomorrow. We have the Fel-Pro gasket, like yours.

Loved the way the Toad sounds!!! I can't wait for video of the launch... :):burnout:
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Bill I have a four a weekend this weekend and baring any set backs ill definitely get some video up this weekend. I hang a new set of calipers on the car yesterday(I had a piston froze on each calipers both sides) I'm hoping it will give me alittle more holding force on the line. When this thing starts building boost its hard to hold it back..

Aaron
 
srixon4406 said:
Bill I have a four a weekend this weekend and baring any set backs ill definitely get some video up this weekend. I hang a new set of calipers on the car yesterday(I had a piston froze on each calipers both sides) I'm hoping it will give me alittle more holding force on the line. When this thing starts building boost its hard to hold it back..

Aaron
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I ordered the O-Ring tool/cutter today; should be here on Monday, maybe...

We'll try to hit the middle of that metal ring around the cylinder.

I need to talk to you about brakes; I'll probably call you tomorrow.
 
Dart_Doctor said:
Aw dang now im depressed bill . Still rooting for you my friend ......... bet you thought i forgot bout you lol . Keep plugin away at it you will get it !
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Hey Doc... if it were easy, everybody would do it!!!! LOL!

Don't worry; we're gettin' there!:blob:
 
crazyjjk said:
Bill, What size wire do you intend to use for your o-rings?
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The (copper) wire is sent with the kit and I seem to remember it is .041"-diameter. The instructions I was told, said to cut a groove that would leave about .008" sticking out above the block after it was seated in the groove.

I'll know more after the kit arrives (with instructions) on or about Monday.

Hope this helps...
 
Well, I peruse FABO every day at lunch and today I started reading this from the beginning. I'm only through page 5 so far so I don't know how it ends yet.
But....
1. Love the idea of a 4 door valiant giant killer.
2. I'd like to see a street version of this car that looks completely stock with all the turbo stuff hidden. (hub caps and all that) A little Whoosh and Adios!
3. I can see a hand-built fiberglass nose piece on this car that resembles the ones on a racing 65-66 Shelby GT-350, Nice flowing shape in place of the bumper with a rectangular opening in the middle for the intercooler and a spoiler underneath everything. All one piece.
4. The aftermarket needs to make a /6 head with bigger ports and valves.
5. Keep it up Bill!
 
KosmicKuda said:
Well, I peruse FABO every day at lunch and today I started reading this from the beginning. I'm only through page 5 so far so I don't know how it ends yet.
But....
1. Love the idea of a 4 door valiant giant killer.
2. I'd like to see a street version of this car that looks completely stock with all the turbo stuff hidden. (hub caps and all that) A little Whoosh and Adios!
3. I can see a hand-built fiberglass nose piece on this car that resembles the ones on a racing 65-66 Shelby GT-350, Nice flowing shape in place of the bumper with a rectangular opening in the middle for the intercooler and a spoiler underneath everything. All one piece.
4. The aftermarket needs to make a /6 head with bigger ports and valves.
5. Keep it up Bill!
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1. So, I assume you're talking about our '64 car and not the Scamp with the Supra motor?

2. This IS a street version with no visual mods except for the intercooler and the Cal Tracs... The hood is fiberglass (lightweight version) and the front fenders are so light that the weight-saving in replicating them in fiberglass would be insignificant. We do need to get the OEM glass out of the side windows and replace it with something lighter, though. Just haven't gotten around to it yet. The car weighs 2,670# without driver. I guess the intercooler is a dead giveaway...

3. A one-piece nose would be nice, but then again, another dead giveaway... LOL!

4. The problem with an aftermarket head is the original bores are so small, at 3.40" there's not much room for bigger valves in a 2-valve configuration. Ours has the 1.75" intakes and 1.5" exhausts that most everybody uses, but going much larger than that requires offset guides and other "heroic measures" that don't get done much because of the trouble and expense. No, a two-valve head isn't the answer for this small-bore engine; I think an aftermarket aluminum head with 4 valves per ylinder with a dedicated valve train that would operate two valves with each pushrod would be the ticket, if that's even possible. It might take an articulated valvetrain (a two-piece pushrod system like an Arias Chevy/Hemi) to get the job done, but that might work. Then, we might have a chance with a normally-aspirated slant six... Until then, (and that scenario is not likely to happen anytime soon) the answer is forced induction for this motor, I think, and thankfully, the short-block infrastructure is up to it... lots of boost!:headbang:

5. Thanks for the encouragement! Next week, the engine is getting some O-Rings on top of the block.... now maybe we can see if this "increased boost" theory of mine actually works...:prayer::prayer::prayer:
 

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Bill Dedman said:
1. So, I assume you're talking about our '64 car and not the Scamp with the Supra motor?
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Nobody ELSE is that dumb Bill! ;) BTW, do you think anybody is interested in Slant 6 turbo headers enough for us to fabricate a master? I have a Slant on the stand and I'm thinking about producing some turbo pieces again. I can use my daughter's car for development as it's a /6 car with power-steering.
 
superdve said:
Nobody ELSE is that dumb Bill! ;) BTW, do you think anybody is interested in Slant 6 turbo headers enough for us to fabricate a master? I amhave a Slant on the stand and I'm thinking about producing some turbo pieces again. I can use my daughter's car for development as it's a /6 car with power-steering.
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Dave you would do every well to Build some sort of turbo header for the Slant. I have a spare log style turbo manifold you could copy, I also have some 1/2 SS header flanges you could copy. I'm not far from you I'm in the Jackson area.
Aaron
 
If a turbo hedder fit an early-a with power steering, it would definitely fit a 67up without power steering right?
 
We rented the Isky O-ring tool and did some cutting for o-rings today, but didn't get very far. We finished cutting on the #1 cylinder and tried to install the copper wire in the groove, but it wouldn't stay in the groove.

We miked a section of it and found it was only .038", not really an interference fit in that groove.

So, I came home and ordered some .041" stainless steel wire that I hope will fit better, and stay in the groove when I hammer it in.

Here are a couple of pictures.

The dummy piston with the bolt in the center is a piece I had made in an effort to catch the filings and keep them from getting places they shouldn't be (like, between the piston crown and skirt.) It is perfectly round, is tapered, and 1" think, and sized to have only about .002" clearance between it and the cylinder wall. The bolt in the middle is threaded into the dummy piston about half and inch, and is only there to provide a handle for removal. Vaseline will form a meniscus between the sides of dummy piston top and the cylinder wall and trap the filings. At least, that's the plan... I hope it works...
 

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Bill sorry to hear it's not going as planned. Did you and Freddie make TWO passes at two different depths? When I did mine it was a long process and once both passes were made to be proper depth the copper wire fit perfectly with tapping from a rubber mallet the ring locked into groove.
 
superdve said:
BTW, do you think anybody is interested in Slant 6 turbo headers enough for us to fabricate a master? I have a Slant on the stand and I'm thinking about producing some turbo pieces again. I can use my daughter's car for development as it's a /6 car with power-steering.
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If it'll work on an Early A with PS, I'll buy one (assuming it doesn't require taking out a mortgage ;-))
 
srixon4406 said:
Bill sorry to hear it's not going as planned. Did you and Freddie make TWO passes at two different depths? When I did mine it was a long process and once both passes were made to be proper depth the copper wire fit perfectly with tapping from a rubber mallet the ring locked into groove.
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Aaron,

In doing research for this o-ring project, I had read some notes on a website where a guy talked about having problems making that first .025: cut. He ended up with some uneven depth cuts, so I decided to not to try making such a large cut the first pass and did it this way: we made three identical individual cuts; each one at .O10". That gave us a depth of .010" after the first cut, .020" after the second cut and .030" after the third and final cut. The depth seemed fine; the wire just would not stay in the groove after I hammered it in there with a plastic hammer. We measured it and it was only .038"-thick... not big enough for a solid interference fit.

So, I ordered some .041"-thick stainless wire to try.

I am not looking forward to cutting that o-ring groove on the back (#6) cylinder, with its close proximity to the firewall. I guess I will replace the cutter's handles with some shorter pieces of all-thread, which will reduce the leverage on the cutter. Is that what you did?

I bought two extra cutting blades but they look different... I haven't examined them yet, closely, but they are just rectangular, with no beveled cutter side... We'll see...

What was your experience with replacing the cutter blade after it got dull?
 
Bill I had the motor on a stand when I did mine I found that the more top pressure you can apply the better. Honestly I believe it took me a couple days to do the whole process because its pretty taxing.
As for the cutter I only used one cutter but I applied some cutting lube to help the process some. My wire locked right into place with some tamping with a rubber mallet.
 
srixon4406 said:
Bill I had the motor on a stand when I did mine I found that the more top pressure you can apply the better. Honestly I believe it took me a couple days to do the whole process because its pretty taxing.
As for the cutter I only used one cutter but I applied some cutting lube to help the process some. My wire locked right into place with some tamping with a rubber mallet.
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Aaron,

Thanks for the information.

Maybe we need to use some cutting oil to do this; the blade wants to chatter, even with a small .010"-cut. We'll try that.

And yes, it's somewhat labor-intensive. Somecody needs to design a cutter that can use a drill motor to do the rotation for the cut. I didn't like the fact that the center bolt-head that expands the four aluminum centering lugs, cannot be tightened up very tight, because the cutter can't turn if the centering mechanism is solid against the cylinder wall. That needs to be re-designed, I think, with a free-floating centering mechanism that could be locked solid against the cylinder wall, to prevent "rocking" as the cut is made.

It might not be easy, but it could be done, and with the electric motor-driven (hand-held drill,) it would take all the work out of it.:toothy7:
 
Bill Dedman said:
Aaron,

In doing research for this o-ring project, I had read some notes on a website where a guy talked about having problems making that first .025: cut. He ended up with some uneven depth cuts, so I decided to not to try making such a large cut the first pass and did it this way: we made three identical individual cuts; each one at .O10". That gave us a depth of .010" after the first cut, .020" after the second cut and .030" after the third and final cut. The depth seemed fine; the wire just would not stay in the groove after I hammered it in there with a plastic hammer. We measured it and it was only .038"-thick... not big enough for a solid interference fit.

So, I ordered some .041"-thick stainless wire to try.

I am not looking forward to cutting that o-ring groove on the back (#6) cylinder, with its close proximity to the firewall. I guess I will replace the cutter's handles with some shorter pieces of all-thread, which will reduce the leverage on the cutter. Is that what you did?

I bought two extra cutting blades but they look different... I haven't examined them yet, closely, but they are just rectangular, with no beveled cutter side... We'll see...

What was your experience with replacing the cutter blade after it got dull?
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The .041" wire turned out to be too large to fit into the groove, so today I found a source ("Fastenal") for some .039" stainless steel wire. Thursday, I will try to buy a 5-pound coil of that smaller wire and try it as soon as I get my hands on it.

I'll let you know how it turns out.:prayer::prayer::prayer:
 
Bill Dedman said:
The .041" wire turned out to be too large to fit into the groove, so today I found a source ("Fastenal") for some .039" stainless steel wire. Thursday, I will try to buy a 5-pound coil of that smaller wire and try it as soon as I get my hands on it.

I'll let you know how it turns out.:prayer::prayer::prayer:
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Progress report, Doc!!!

The O-Rings are IN!!!!:blob:

The .039" wire was inconsistent when measured with a digital caliper (ran anywhere from .035" to .039"-diameter and was so stiff it was REALLY hard to bend into the circular grooves, SO... I took it to Coleman Heat Treating in nearby Jackasonville and got them to anneal it.... which they did for the princely sum of $55.00 and three days.

When I got it back, it was limber and fit into the grooves easily, giving me none of the problems I'd had trying to work with it and the .041: wire that was too big.

How to make it stay in the grooves, though, was the next problem. It SHOULD have been a .001" interference fit, but most of it just wasn't. So, I took the coward's way out and bought a tube of KRAZY glue and once the wire was cut to length and had been trial-fitted to the groove, I just laid down a very sparse coating of KRAZY glue in the bottom of the groove, let it set up 'til it was "tacky," and then stuffed the wire down into the groove and held it with my fingers until it was solidly attached to the bottom (and, sides) of the groove... a matter of only one or two minutes.

After fighting this battle for three week or more, with little or NO success, I thought I'd died and gone to Heaven!!!

Here are a couple of a pictures I took of the finished product. :wack:
 

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