**Twin Turbo 67 Dart Project**

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fenderman33 said:
What happened to going with coil on plug?
Jon
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Still an option, I have not made my mind up yet. I don't want the coils in sight anywhere so they will need to be hidden. I will cross that bridge when it gets installed in the car. It is too hard to make everything work outside the car when I don't know exactly where to mount everything or how long to make the Spark Plug wires etc.

Regardless on a SBM even with COP or CNP, you need to get the cam signal from somewhere. So you would need to either use a distributor like I am or make something that would fit in the dizzy hole or the Oil Pump Shaft would probably come out and you would loose Oil Pressure. I would probably have an aluminum cover machined to go in place of the Distributor cap on mine, if I decide to go that route.

If you or anyone have any suggestions on how to get a Cam Signal from a SBM without using a Distributor, please let me know. I am more than open for some Ideas.
 
As long as you have the hole to fill anyway I don't see a reason not to use the distributor for a cam signal. If you didn't want to for some reason I'm sure you could mount a cam signal in the timing cover and put a tab on the cam gear to get a signal. I want to say my 318 magnum had a boss and a filled hole cast into it for a sensor, but I could be remembering something else.
I though I saw you mounting LS2 coils, so I was through off by the distributor cap. Either way, looking good.
-Jon
 
fenderman33 said:
As long as you have the hole to fill anyway I don't see a reason not to use the distributor for a cam signal. If you didn't want to for some reason I'm sure you could mount a cam signal in the timing cover and put a tab on the cam gear to get a signal. I want to say my 318 magnum had a boss and a filled hole cast into it for a sensor, but I could be remembering something else.
I though I saw you mounting LS2 coils, so I was through off by the distributor cap. Either way, looking good.
-Jon
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The way you are saying would oil splash on the sensor? I wonder if the sensor would be ok doing that, assuming I am understanding you correctly.
Now you got me thinking, if you had a belt drive timing set up, it would be hella easy to do for sure. Keep the ideas coming, I could use some brain storming assistance!
 
I got the 36-1 Trigger wheel opened up & Drilled with 12 holes so it can be clocked if needed. I also got the distributor shaft milled down so the Reluctor will be centered with the Sensor in the Dizzy. Today I roughed in a very simple Crank Trigger Bracket. It only took me about 30 minutes to make it.

Next time I go in the shop is when I will take off 7 Teeth on that Fancy Nascar Reluctor and put 2 set screws in it. I did have to clearance the Reluctor .0300 so it would slide nice and tight onto the Dizzy shaft. Once it is tapped then it will be clockable. The Sensor should wind up about 120* BTDC when it gets triggered, The Crank Sensor Tooth #1 Angle will be set up at 80* BTDC.


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Keep in mind how close your sensor is. Because the metal will expand slightly as it heats up. I would make sure you have close to .030 of a gap. Looks like you might be a little close. I would hate to see them make contact.
 
03ramit1 said:
Keep in mind how close your sensor is. Because the metal will expand slightly as it heats up. I would make sure you have close to .030 of a gap. Looks like you might be a little close. I would hate to see them make contact.
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I don't have them gapped as of yet, it is only on the Mock. The Crank Sensor is on my mock block that is still in the car, doesn't even have a crank in it! These particular sensors recommended air gap is 1.5MM.





Hall effect crankshaft or camshaft position sensor. Just like our standard Hall effect sensor, except it has a lower maximum temperature (at 85 degrees C, that's still a lot) and is mounted in a threaded stainless steel housing. Threads are M12 and mounting nuts included. Runs off 5 to 24 volts, and gives a nice square wave so there's no variable voltage issues. Has a 12 inch long, 3 wire pigtail. Here's what the wires do:

Red - Supply voltage; connect to either VREF or 12 volt switched power.

Blue - Output signal. On a MegaSquirt, connects to pin 24. We just set our MegaSquirt up for the VR conditioner and it works great. V3.0 MicroSquirts can also do this, but older MicroSquirts will need to use the Hall effect input.

Black - Ground.

If you have the newest revision of our wiring harness, you can just tee the red wire on the sensor into the red harness wire, and the black and blue wires connect to the respective black and white wires inside the sheilded RPM input wire. Red to red, black to black, blue to white - pretty straightforward with only one mismatched color.



Specifications

Operating voltage: 4.75 to 24 volts

Maximum overvoltage and reverse voltage: +27 to -25 volts

Maximum output current: 20 mA

Maximum frequency: 15 kHz

Temperature range: -40 to +85 degrees C

Recommended air gap:1.5 mm

Thread pitch: M12 x 1 mm

Threaded length: 36 mm

Overall length: 46 mm, not including wires

Package material: Stainless steel
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Ok cool. As long as you know the specs. I would hate so see it installed wrong and cause a new set up problems.
 
Just looked at a conversion table. Looks like I was wrong too. 1.5 mm works out to .060 for a gap so I was even too tight. But the idea is the same. Good luck. Hope this resolves your problems I can't wait to see this thing running.
 
03ramit1 said:
Just looked at a conversion table. Looks like I was wrong too. 1.5 mm works out to .060 for a gap so I was even too tight. But the idea is the same. Good luck. Hope this resolves your problems I can't wait to see this thing running.
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No problem, more eyes the better. It's hard to get things exact when the engine is not in my possession. I may go get it this week so I can get everything set up including the new fuel lines to the fuel rails so I can have it fully ready for the next go at it.
 
Can you run it on a stand at home? Maybe bypass the turbos and break in the motor before you go tune it. Then you would know it up and running.
 
03ramit1 said:
Can you run it on a stand at home? Maybe bypass the turbos and break in the motor before you go tune it. Then you would know it up and running.
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The motor is broke in, we did that on the dyno at first start up. There are no leaks of any kind which means I could actually install it in the car and take it to the chassis dyno. I was tossing that idea around this weekend. To do that I would have the engine bay, jambs & trunk painted, then install the driveline, do the interior and then have the exterior painted.... Need to make my mind up on it.
 
Yes, oil would get on the sensor, but if you look at most if not all of the engines in production now they'll have cam/crank sensors that go right into the block/valve cover/ timing cover.
I think I had to set my crank sensor at .045" to get a clean signal without sync loss.
-Jon



Mad Dart said:
The way you are saying would oil splash on the sensor? I wonder if the sensor would be ok doing that, assuming I am understanding you correctly.
Now you got me thinking, if you had a belt drive timing set up, it would be hella easy to do for sure. Keep the ideas coming, I could use some brain storming assistance!
Click to expand...
 
I bought some D585 Coils Today. I will mock up some coil brackets and see where I can mount them somewhere on the car. Since they are weather proof, maybe in the fender wells somewhere. Ill pick up the wiring harness's at Rockauto.com , It is less expensive buying the complete harnesses than trying to build my own. I have a set of 10.2mm Spark Plug wires that I will adapt for length for the remote mounting. I need to find the ends somewhere and make them up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36037918759...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2323wt_842
 
Mad Dart said:
I bought some D585 Coils Today. I will mock up some coil brackets and see where I can mount them somewhere on the car. Since they are weather proof, maybe in the fender wells somewhere. Ill pick up the wiring harness's at Rockauto.com , It is less expensive buying the complete harnesses than trying to build my own. I have a set of 10.2mm Spark Plug wires that I will adapt for length for the remote mounting. I need to find the ends somewhere and make them up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36037918759...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2323wt_842
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Just an idea but,
during my efi ideas I thought about a bracket along the side of the oil pan rail. I have pan studs all the way around so it would have been easier. Then the wires would run nice and tight up the side of the block and between the headers.
 
CUUDAK said:
Just an idea but,
during my efi ideas I thought about a bracket along the side of the oil pan rail. I have pan studs all the way around so it would have been easier. Then the wires would run nice and tight up the side of the block and between the headers.
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Ill check it out. I still have the mock engine in the car! Gunna also need to make a Distributor cap block off plate thing a magigger. It will be low profile I'm thinking made out of aluminum.
 
Last of the Dizzy Mods........ I Cut off the other 7 teeth on the Nascar Reluctor then drilled and tapped it for 2 set screws. It fits pretty tight on the shaft, with using the set screws and Red Locktite on the threads, it should go nowhere. It is fully clockable so you can make sure the Cam Signal and the Crank Signal do not happen at the same time.


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This is one wicked build. Thanks for sharing all the details. Hope you can exterminate all the bugs and get this monster running soon.
 
kujo said:
This is one wicked build. Thanks for sharing all the details. Hope you can exterminate all the bugs and get this monster running soon.
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Thanks, busy at work. No time for the car again and here comes the Holidays. I haven't touched it in almost 2 weeks.

I did get the D585 Coils and wiring harnesses, ohhhhh and the NEW parts for the fuel Rails -8 instead of -6, etc , etc.
 
I can't wait to see how this car hooks. I've got a 69 dart I want to build but I can't make up my mind on rear suspension. I was dead set on caltracs leafs and bars with coilovers but Idk. Ladder bars are too rigid for the street. I've known people to break heim joints all the time. I don't want to cut it up anymore than I have too. The mustang boys have got us by the balls on rear suspension. I was looking at RMS link kit but Idk if it will hold up. Im doing a low deck 400 Edelbrock victor heads and a single 91 or 94mm turbo.
 
spoolintsi97 said:
I can't wait to see how this car hooks. I've got a 69 dart I want to build but I can't make up my mind on rear suspension. I was dead set on caltracs leafs and bars with coilovers but Idk. Ladder bars are too rigid for the street. I've known people to break heim joints all the time. I don't want to cut it up anymore than I have too. The mustang boys have got us by the balls on rear suspension. I was looking at RMS link kit but Idk if it will hold up. Im doing a low deck 400 Edelbrock victor heads and a single 91 or 94mm turbo.
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Well, the intended use of this car was to put a 402 Stroker in it that I built.
That is why I did the Triangulated 4 link. If I was to do it over again "without changing my mind, which I always have a problem with" I would have back halved the car and did a standard 4 Link. I ended up selling that Short Block to a member here and it morphed into the Twin Turbo's and building a New Short Block, Solid Roller etc, etc.

I do however still like the idea of a totally stock looking car with no scoop that you can drive anywhere and go knock off a Low 9 second 1/4 with ease. So that is the plan with this one and I am going to stick to it...... Haaa, yeah right":D

Do you have a build thread? If so post up a link so we can all check it out!:thumbup:
 
Mad Dart said:
Thanks, busy at work. No time for the car again and here comes the Holidays. I haven't touched it in almost 2 weeks.

I did get the D585 Coils and wiring harnesses, ohhhhh and the NEW parts for the fuel Rails -8 instead of -6, etc , etc.
Click to expand...

Work is not a valid reason for ignoring our car!! Get that beast running for us!!!
~Michael
 
Dartman1969 said:
Work is not a valid reason for ignoring our car!! Get that beast running for us!!!
~Michael
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I hear you...... haaaaa

Haven't had any time to work on the engine, I'll get back on it hard come January.

I did however just buy a B&M SFI Flex Plate, Quick Time SFI Flex Plate Shield and ARP 12PT Bolts for the flex plate and converter. No time to work on the car so I figured I will start stock piling parts for the next phase. I also found a brand new set of 2.76 Gears for a 489 Case that I will be picking up along with a 35 spline spool. The Brand new Sure Grip and 3.91 Gears will be coming out.
 
Mad Dart said:
I hear you...... haaaaa

Haven't had any time to work on the engine, I'll get back on it hard come January.

I did however just buy a B&M SFI Flex Plate, Quick Time SFI Flex Plate Shield and ARP 12PT Bolts for the flex plate and converter. No time to work on the car so I figured I will start stock piling parts for the next phase. I also found a brand new set of 2.76 Gears for a 489 Case that I will be picking up along with a 35 spline spool. The Brand new Sure Grip and 3.91 Gears will be coming out.
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If your parting with the 3:91 sure grip third member let me know.
 
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