Uh Oh.....!

[ramcharger]

I would sure enough return it if this is something no one has ever seen before.
I sure as heck have not.:stop:
Some sh! head pulled your cam out and snagged an old peace and put it in your box.
Give them a call and have there rep look at these pictures Monday.:cheers:
And find out who sent it out.:cheers:

man like you have said before bro!! you can't catch a brake.:clock:
Sorry to here that first cam laid down on ya.:angry7:

This pretty much sucks Mike. Like you say, I just catch a break these days. After I saw this cam I got a freakin nose bleed. I really need to get my blood pressure checked. I feel much better now after I had one of my giant burgers on the BBQ.

Mike is right. Call the company and send them some pics via email. Someone may have done the old switcharoo with the real cam. Sounds like your using the same oil as i do. I called Valvoline and talked to their tech and he said the oil was all i needed forever. That's what i run full time.

Thanks Smallblock,

I've got the pics posted on a web server so all I need to do is send them is a link tomorrow. Being Sunday, Lunati's closed. Doesn't look as though this cam has ever been used. It was in the preservative bag which was then stuffed in a tube, with the ends packed with foam and the plastic tube caps were stapled in with thick heavy duty staples. No wear on the cam whatsoever.

So you heard the same thing I did from Valvoline. I'm wondering if my mistake was not using a ZDDP additive from Crane, Comp or Hughes Engines during break in. I just never had a problem before so why change?

What complicates this is I went to all three cam manufacturers web sites and not only do they all have different cam break in procedures but they also have different break in oil requirements:

Crane says to absolutely not use SL or SM rated oils (Valvoline VR1 is rated SL). This is new to me and was not in the original break-in instructions.

Comp says SL oils are fine.

Lunati says use only single weight SAE 30.

To try to prevent this from happening again, I picked up Rotella SJ rated SAE 30 and will use the Hughes additive. I'm hoping I have all my bases covered this way, assuming I don't have a baked cam from the factory, lol!

 

[ramcharger]

We had a guy at Napa that worked in the shop doing drive shaft work.
Needles to say it took about four days to figure out what and who stole from the man feeding his children.:angry7:

Switched out a crank and he was gone. It douse happen.:angry7:

That sucks Mike. :mumum: Sorry to hear that.

 

[ramcharger]

Well, Lunati says says the coating won't last a microsecond at start-up and will not affect breaking in the cam at all. Okay......... They know what that coating is made of, I don't.

We'll see if I can't waste another cam this week.

 

[George R]

Good Luck!
I think you'll be OK with the motor oil you listed.

George

 

[ramcharger]

Good Luck!
I think you'll be OK with the motor oil you listed.

George

I hope so George. This is the last flat tappet cam I will ever buy. I mentioned to Lunati what oil/additive I had planned on using for break in and they said it would be fine. We'll see....

 

[fishy68]

Good luck with it Joe. I think you'll be fine using Rotella and ZDDP additive. That's what I used on a Comp and 2 Lunati's that I installed and they were both ok. That's strange how Crane says not to use SL oils. That's the first time I've heard of that. What do they say to use?

 

[ramcharger]

Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs. Read all about it here: http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/548e.pdf

I installed a Comp in a 360 maybe 3 or 4 years ago with Valvoline and had no problems. Oh well.

 

[fishy68]

I bet the reason they say not to use sl or sm is because normal sl and sm doesn't have very much ZDDP in it. Only VR1 and Diesel oils have very much ZDDP in them. They did say you can use a race only oil so I bet VR1 would be ok if you asked them since it has ZDDP added. It's so darn expensive though compared to Rotella and Rotella does the job fine. If your only gonna have it in there for 20-25 minutes then drain it the cheaper Rotella (with a ZDDP additive just to make sure) is the way to go. JMHO.

 

[440SCOUT]

damn .. it sounds like you covered your bases.. there is nothing worse than taking apart a new motor... unfortunately i do know how it feels,,,
good luck with this one..

 

[memike]

I hope all go's well this time Joe.[-o<
I am getting a good feeling that you will have it in and running for 100k miles
or more. :clock:
Thumbs up to you and your time spent bud.:thumleft:
I will do a rum and coke with you when you get the RC running again.:drinkers:
Will Captain Morgan be ok.
My son and his friends leaved some here over the week end?

Slide that puppy in bud :salut:

 

[ramcharger]

I bet the reason they say not to use sl or sm is because normal sl and sm doesn't have very much ZDDP in it. Only VR1 and Diesel oils have very much ZDDP in them. They did say you can use a race only oil so I bet VR1 would be ok if you asked them since it has ZDDP added. It's so darn expensive though compared to Rotella and Rotella does the job fine. If your only gonna have it in there for 20-25 minutes then drain it the cheaper Rotella (with a ZDDP additive just to make sure) is the way to go. JMHO.

That makes sense Fishy. I plan on using the Rottela/additive at cam break in, then again with additive for the first 500 or until it gets cold, then swap back to the VR1 in 10W-40.

damn .. it sounds like you covered your bases.. there is nothing worse than taking apart a new motor... unfortunately i do know how it feels,,,
good luck with this one..

Nothing worse than having to break down a nice tight leak free engine. :angry7: Oh well, we'll see how the Lunati works out and maybe someone here will gain some knowledge, including me .

I hope all go's well this time Joe.[-o<
I am getting a good feeling that you will have it in and running for 100k miles
or more. :clock:
Thumbs up to you and your time spent bud.:thumleft:
I will do a rum and coke with you when you get the RC running again.:drinkers:
Will Captain Morgan be ok.
My son and his friends leaved some here over the week end?

Slide that puppy in bud :salut:

Installed it straight up and degreed. According to the cam card, an installed centerline angle (ICA) of 108 degrees is 4 degrees advanced. It came out to 108.25 degrees. Good to go. Just waiting for the timing cover gasket to arrive at the local NAPA ($2.88 vs. $34.95 for timing cover kit. I already have a spare water pump gasket and don't need the seal or partial OP gasket) and the intake manifold gasket from Summit and I'll be ready to go.

I'll shoot ya a PM after the break-in, good or bad. Hopefully a big fat Bacardi and Cherry Coke will be in line after the test drive, lol. BTW, Morgans is fine, just don't mix it with Cherry Coke lol!

 

[fishy68]

Man Joe I wish I'd have been thinking about you needing them gaskets cause I have a whole box of them. NOS stuff from a Dodge dealer that went out of business a few miles from me. If I'd been thinking I'd have sent you them out when you first posted it. DUH!!

 

[camd64]

im working on the same problem with my comp cammed 318 right now! only mine also muched about .060 off the lifter....WTF! switching to lunati pn#60401 from the voodoo line. found the oil hole was blocked to that lifter and slightly blocked on the one next to it. my own fault for not checking all this stuff after i got it machined. also did you notice that lunati says 30 weight non-detergent yet comp or crane says nothing about that?

 

[ramcharger]

Man Joe I wish I'd have been thinking about you needing them gaskets cause I have a whole box of them. NOS stuff from a Dodge dealer that went out of business a few miles from me. If I'd been thinking I'd have sent you them out when you first posted it. DUH!!

No big deal Fishy, they'll be here soon enough! It just gives me time during the week to set up my new/used intake manifold, make sure that all gasket sufaces are as clean as can be and given the crankcase time to drip so I'll have a nice dry surface for the oil pan gasket to seal to.

I'll keep you mind for next time though, lol!

im working on the same problem with my comp cammed 318 right now! only mine also muched about .060 off the lifter....WTF! switching to lunati pn#60401 from the voodoo line. found the oil hole was blocked to that lifter and slightly blocked on the one next to it. my own fault for not checking all this stuff after i got it machined. also did you notice that lunati says 30 weight non-detergent yet comp or crane says nothing about that?

I'm switching to the exact same cam! Should be pretty mild with a suggested rpm range of 1000-5500 rpm and they claim 19" of vacuum too.

I did notice all the different oil reccomendations. Scroll up a bit and check it out.

BTW, what was blocking the oil passage? Those passages are huge! I checked mine too as a matter of course but found no problems. Sorry to hear that you're going through this too.

 

[camd64]

when i got the motor it looked like the oil had never been changed. i had to use a chisel to get all the carbon off to see the casting numbers on the heads! i got the motor baked but maybe i should have paid to do it twice because some was still in the galleys. good luck with the RC's new bumpstick!

 

[fishy68]

Joe I think you'll like that Lunati. I have one in my 360. The 60404. It's pretty good size but still real torquey. I bet yours will pull a house down when you get it in.

I had a Comp 274xe in mine at first but the lifters went bad twice in less than 750 miles so I gave up on it and put the Lunati in. Had the Lunati in for allmost 1500 miles now and no problems at all. One odd but good thing I noticed about the Lunati is it gets about 2 mpg better gas mileage than the comp did even though it's 4 degrees bigger at .050 and has .025 more lift.

As long as I keep my foot out of it that is.:toothy10::burnout::toothy10:

 

[Michaeluser]

I was wondering if your pushrods all measured out the same length? I looks like more of a valve spring pressure then bad break-in procedures. Just a thought but mic out a couple of pushrods and see if they are the same length +/- the range. I had a cam go sour in my Stang years ago and I learned the pushrods were the wrong length. I bent two and it wouldn't rev.

 

[ramcharger]

Michael,

The pushrods are were all ordered to my specifications due to my valvetrain being nowhere near stock. I checked them again prior to installation. Valve spring pressure is set at 113lbs at the correct installed height.

 

[ramcharger]

Joe I think you'll like that Lunati. I have one in my 360. The 60404. It's pretty good size but still real torquey. I bet yours will pull a house down when you get it in.

That's the plan for this application, lol! These first generation RC's are big trucks. The Lunati tech kept telling me how much I was going to love this cam. We'll see.

That 60404 is a big cam, lol! I noticed the rpm range was 2200-6400 and 234 degrees @ .050" lift. I'll bet it sounds wicked! What stall converter are you running or are you running a manual? I would think that power brakes are completely out of the picture?

 

[fishy68]

That's the plan for this application, lol! These first generation RC's are big trucks. The Lunati tech kept telling me how much I was going to love this cam. We'll see.

That 60404 is a big cam, lol! I noticed the rpm range was 2200-6400 and 234 degrees @ .050" lift. I'll bet it sounds wicked! What stall converter are you running or are you running a manual? I would think that power brakes are completely out of the picture?

I know what you mean about the early Ramchargers. A buddy of mine had a 71 when we were kids. Had a 383 with a granny 4spd. I'll never forget the time the clutch went out and he dropped the trans. and before he got it back together he pulled the floor jack out from under it to do something else with it. It took me, him and another guy to lift that monster cast iron granny 4 and transfer case back onto the jack. All 3 of us were barely able to get it. I told him if he ever did that again I'd wip him but good.:angry7:

Yeah the 60404 does sound real good. The converter is rated at 3000 and I think it would stall that much but with manual brakes I can only get it to about 27-2800 before the brakes won't hold it back anymore. Your right about no power brakes with it. Lucky I have manual brakes cause it only pulls about 7 inches of vacuum in neutral at 800rpm.

 

[ramcharger]

I know what you mean about the early Ramchargers. A buddy of mine had a 71 when we were kids. Had a 383 with a granny 4spd. I'll never forget the time the clutch went out and he dropped the trans. and before he got it back together he pulled the floor jack out from under it to do something else with it. It took me, him and another guy to lift that monster cast iron granny 4 and transfer case back onto the jack. All 3 of us were barely able to get it. I told him if he ever did that again I'd wip him but good.:angry7:.

Yeah man, those NP203 T-cases are full time 4WD NP203 and are cast iron! I separated them when I pulled the trans the first time around. The good thing is that after who knows how many miles of serious abuse all I had to do was pick up a rebuild kit from Rock Auto and install it. The input and output ball bearings were all fine but I swapped them out for piece of mind. IIRC, I counted 174 loose roller bearings when breaking this thing down. No drinking beer on dissasembly or reassembly. All bushings and shims looked great too!

Yeah the 60404 does sound real good. The converter is rated at 3000 and I think it would stall that much but with manual brakes I can only get it to about 27-2800 before the brakes won't hold it back anymore. Your right about no power brakes with it. Lucky I have manual brakes cause it only pulls about 7 inches of vacuum in neutral at 800rpm.

Are you getting more vacuum than you did with the Comp Cam? I'm just trying to figure out why your mileage went up two numbers. That's a good deal though.

If this cam works out, I'll go with the solid roller from them for the duster. Pretty similiar spec to your hydraulic.

 

[fishy68]

Are you getting more vacuum than you did with the Comp Cam? I'm just trying to figure out why your mileage went up two numbers. That's a good deal though.

If this cam works out, I'll go with the solid roller from them for the duster. Pretty similiar spec to your hydraulic.

Great looking job detailing the trans. and transfer case. I figured they must have been very tough transmissions because My buddy Steve was young and crazy and drunk half the time when he was in it. We lived in a rural area so he was off roading alot. Got it stuck a few times and hammered on it hard back and forth to get out and it still worked fine when he sold it. It had over 100,000 miles on it when he got it so that tells you just how tough they are.

About the cam. It's real close but the comp had slightly more vacuum. About 1/2 inch. That's the odd part about it. This cams bigger and has less vacuum but gets better fuel mileage. Go figure.

I was looking at that solid for the stroker I'm building. I also talked to Jim at Racer Brown and he gave me numbers very similiar but on a 108 lobe center. I ran them both on Desktop Dyno and their both real close but the RB has a slight advantage.

 

[ramcharger]

Great looking job detailing the trans. and transfer case. I figured they must have been very tough transmissions because My buddy Steve was young and crazy and drunk half the time when he was in it. We lived in a rural area so he was off roading alot. Got it stuck a few times and hammered on it hard back and forth to get out and it still worked fine when he sold it. It had over 100,000 miles on it when he got it so that tells you just how tough they are.

About the cam. It's real close but the comp had slightly more vacuum. About 1/2 inch. That's the odd part about it. This cams bigger and has less vacuum but gets better fuel mileage. Go figure.

I was looking at that solid for the stroker I'm building. I also talked to Jim at Racer Brown and he gave me numbers very similiar but on a 108 lobe center. I ran them both on Desktop Dyno and their both real close but the RB has a slight advantage.

Thanks for the compliment on the drive train rebuild. So far, so good there and no problems. Tranny shifts hard under throttle.

Man, that MPG increase is a mystery. If only we had the means to measure BSFC in our garages.

We think alike Fishy, my build would be a stroker too with either the LP commando or Indy heads. I would imagine with the tighter lobe center the torque peaks would be higher at the expense of idle quality (at these durations, I don't know how much that really matters) and the ability to continue to rev past the HP peak. How much either of these would really matter and by how much is an interesting point.

Strip only, I would pick the RB, some street use I would stick with the 110 lobe centers of the Lunati. Wish I had a dyno room and both cams much less a test mule stroker laying around, lol!

 

[needsaresto]

but as Clint Camshaft might say, "I know what you're thinking, I might have 16 lobes or only 15, in all the excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is 360 magnum and would blow your chevy clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do ya feel lucky punk?" LOL!

We'll I'm not a punk but I don't feel particuarly lucky either.[/QUOTE]

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ramcharger]

but as Clint Camshaft might say, "I know what you're thinking, I might have 16 lobes or only 15, in all the excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is 360 magnum and would blow your chevy clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do ya feel lucky punk?" LOL!

We'll I'm not a punk but I don't feel particuarly lucky either.

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

I was hoping someone would get that. :jocolor: