Upgrading 1965 Barracuda brake lights

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bohica2xo

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I started on this project a while back, finally got around to taking some pictures.

Anybody that owns one of these cars knows how weak the aft lighting is. My big issue is the daylight visibility Here in the desert with 10,000 foot candles pounding on the light they can be dim in full sun.

The housings are 47 years old, and have very little space inside. The lenses are hard to find, and take a beating from a larger bulb. I had already replaced the 1157's with 3496's. Still not thrilled with the performance I started on new circuit boards for LED's. I used the same automotive grade TL series that Cadillac, BMW & Toyota use. Rated for service to 110c and recommended for stop / tail light service. I moved the drivers outside of the reflector, and placed the LED's on the same plane as the OEM bulb filament. The back of the double sided board has the heat sink for the LED's

LEDinside2.jpg


It is tight, but 50 units fit. They are driven in 3 sections, with 3 drivers for reliability.

With the brake pedal depressed, engine running the 3496 on the right vs the LED board on the left. Taken from 8 feet back, and about 5 feet from the ground, direct sunlight @ 11am:

brake2.jpg


Quite a bit brighter.
The red lens in place of the back up light is something else I am experimenting with. Since the OEM red reflector is so weak I originally molded clear lenses and used the red reflective material. I decided to make some red ones to run a regular bulb just in case the LED's develop a problem. I loaded a 2357 in the housing, since the lens will take a beating:

brake4.jpg



That lens is less likely to "false light" in the sun like the upper lens. It is however a little lower than optimal. Still better than nothing. Even if I did not add the LED's I think I would go with the red lens. The back up lights were never great, and I will replace them with a couple of H1 units under the bumper.

This photo was taken 45 degrees off axis, and 25 feet back. The LED's have a 45 degree angle of output, and are still plenty bright from two lanes over:

brake5.jpg


For the tail lights I only run the center row, like on the new Cadillac. It seems bright when you compare it to weak OEM tail light, but around here we have a lot of street lighting - you can read a newspaper on most streets at night. I can of course adjust the drive down should it be necessary:

tail1.jpg



It has been a fun project. It was not simple or cheap. It does work well.

B.
 
That looks GREAT ! I will in the near future be into this myself with my Daughters 65. This info will be ALOT of help. GREAT JOB ! How about HEADLIGHTS ? is that next ? ( hope , hope , hope , LOL ! )
 
Nice. Since they can be designed and made as easy as any circuit board, I expect some Chinese factories will soon start spitting them out for every car model, if they can get the dimensions. The problem now is that LED's are still fairly expensive.
 
LEDinside2.jpg




brake2.jpg



The red lens in place of the back up light is something else I am experimenting with. Since the OEM red reflector is so weak I originally molded clear lenses and used the red reflective material. I decided to make some red ones

brake4.jpg





brake5.jpg




tail1.jpg
Very interesting and impresive. How did you go about making your own lenses?
 
OneMile:

I m building a new headlight harness right now. Including relays & circuit breakers to take that load off of the 47 year old switch & bulkhead connector. I will post pics when I am done.

Bill:
I am not worried about the chinese doing that job. It is too low volume for them, and they would have cut every corner they could. I have about 3 hours in the circuit board layout in the housing, and another couple in the driver board & circuits in the trunk. The LED's in quantity are less than 75 cents each - but by the time you build it all, burn & drill double sided boards, etc. it was a little bit more than the cost of cutting up a couple of trailer lights.

Goldfish:
I initially made the mold for those lenses to replace my trashed back up lenses (the "good" one is in the pics). I machined a mold from aluminum bar stock, and actually molded the parts from cycloaliphatic epoxy. The clear parts came out good, the idea to tint it red came later. I had noticed when I pulled into the driveway at night the original reflective ring in those lenses was worthless compared to the 1980 F100 parked next to it. I will have to take a pic of the garish back up lenses...

B.
 
Hey there, this might be a little off topic but, where is a good place to find 1965 tailight gasket set? We're getting ready to repaint my '65 Valiant and was looking to replace the old stuff, and by the way cool LED set-up, I replaced my 1157 bulb with a set of 1157 LED replacements small but still a little more effective..Thanks Brian.
 
65Valiant:

I would be interested in the exact type of LED replacement you used. I have never found one even close to the output 1157 in the daytime - or I sure would not have put this much work in to it.

If you mean the gaskets for the lenses themselves, you can buy them from http://www.detroitmuscletechnologies.com/

I simply cut my own from EVA foam sheet:

BUgasket.jpg


If you are looking for the molded trim that goes around the outer edge of the housing between the housing & body - they are very hard to find. They were injection molded, and can't be cut from flat sheet.

B.
 
I would love to see the same pics at night.

And is that a mirror under the LEDs?
 
Actually that is a piece of clear acrylic sheet that is part of the way the board is anchored. The LED's have lenses, so a mirror would not do much in that location.

I never did a nightime shot, but I will eventually - even indoors with the lights on they are very bright.

I might as well add the retroreflector pics here. The 3m tape you see in earlier pics, lit by the camera flash. It is bright, and looks orange to the digital camera:

RetroRefl.jpg


Probably enough to find the car with your headlights when parked at a curb.

B.
 
Nice work! Thoughtful and knowledgeable configuration makes all the difference -- smart design of the 3-segment drivers, heat sinks, etc. This works; "LED bulbs" and other such junk doesn't. Guess you have already seen the intensity and ratio info in this thread. What grade of retroreflective sheeting did you use for your new aft reflectors?

Also curious to know more about your lens casting technique and material.
 
Thanks for the compliment Dan. Much of what I do is flying parts, so redundancy is just part of the job.

The ratios between modes are 8:1 according to my Gossen Luna-Pro. Not a full photometric study but close enough for me. Because of the additional emitter area the assembly appears to explode when going from tail to stop. I doubt anyone will miss that slap in the face as fast as they come up.

I am not sure of which reflective film that is. I have a sign shop next door, and I picked that out of the scrap bin. I am open to suggestions if there is something better - it is just stuck on there & I have the program to cut more from other material. The Yellow stuff is brighter, but ugly in sunlight. I will ask the sign shop what the stuff is.

Lenses are cast from a slow cure epoxy. I machined an aluminum mold, and pour them after degassing. I originally made the mold to make some new back up lenses, so I have some clear ones laying around. I considered going amber turn signals at one point - may still try it.

I have been toying with making the license plate light double in intensity when the brake lights come on. Just another visual cue that something has changed ahead. Or should I just make it bright as hell all the time?

B.
 
Thanks for the compliment Dan. Much of what I do is flying parts, so redundancy is just part of the job.

I think anyone who's been working on cars for any length of time knows what it feels like to get frustrated enough to send parts flying across the garage or across the street. That's what you meant, right?
redbeard.gif


The ratios between modes are 8:1 according to my Gossen Luna-Pro.

Definitely sufficient and then some!

Because of the additional emitter area the assembly appears to explode when going from tail to stop.

Yup. As mentioned in the other ('66 Dart) thread, a change in not just intensity but shape of the lit area accompanying a function change (tail/stop) helps a lot.

I am not sure of which reflective film that is. I have a sign shop next door, and I picked that out of the scrap bin. I am open to suggestions if there is something better

Hard to find on the consumer market, but fluorescent red retroreflective sheeting is the stuff to seek. Have you noticed how yellow highway signs have gotten brighter over the last few years? I'm not talking about the fluorescent yellow-green (or "safety yellow") ones you see in pedestrian zones but regular yellow guide signs on the highways and byways. It's because regular yellow is being replaced by fluorescent yellow. If you happen to see a regular yellow and a fluorescent yellow highway sign side by side, the regular yellow one looks mustard-brown by comparison. The fluoro red stuff isn't applied to highway signs (yet?), but it is out there. I've seen it on new luggage tugs at airports.

Fluoro or no, the Type IX or Type XI sheeting is the highest performing stuff. You might not like its "matrix of square prisms" appearance, though. I'm not sure exactly what sheeting Petersen uses for these, but it looks nice and works well.

The Yellow stuff is brighter, but ugly in sunlight.

Rear reflex must be red. Front not required, but white if present. Front side must be amber, rear side must be red. (side marker reflex and/or lights required from 1968 to 1970, side marker reflex and lights required from 1970 on).

Lenses are cast from a slow cure epoxy.

Interesting. How's its heat resistance and UV stability? Commercially produced lenses are acrylic or polycarbonate.

I considered going amber turn signals at one point - may still try it.

Smart idea. See here and here.

I have been toying with making the license plate light double in intensity when the brake lights come on.

Probably not a wise idea. The primary main objective is immediately and unambiguously clear lights. Don't throw unexpected nonstandard state changes at other drivers; it never improves their reaction speed or accuracy.

Or should I just make it bright as hell all the time?

Most queries I get about license plate lighting go the other way: people want to make them as dim as possible! :shock:
 
I checked with the sign shop, and that reflective material is an Avery product, currently used on road signs. It does seem to excite rather than simply reflect - I will have to test it with a meter.

Have to play with whatever else is out there. The sign shop has some 3M tape with a pattern in it, but it is not wide enough to cut complete rings from. Thanks for the input.

Cycloaliphatic epoxy is great stuff, but between the cure cycle & cost it has a limited production use. The heat distortion temp for the stuff I used is 140c - and around 150c you would think it was rubber. But it returns to shape & hardness if you let it cool back down. I have seen this epoxy exposed to full sun here in the desert (used in the manufacturing of PV cells) for a decade or more. It never seems to yellow, but if left underwater for a couple of years it will get cloudy on the surface.

Probably true about the state changes, I forget how stupid the drivers are here - but get reminded every day on the way home. I believe their average IQ is their hat size + shoe size / 2

As far as bright license plates - I drive reasonably, have not had a ticket in 25 years. Our plates are blue / white flat plastic. I will take advantage of the so called "white" led wavelengths by pointing some right at the plate.

B.
 
do you have a good source for the Cycloaliphatic epoxy. I am also in the desert and have the same sun problems you have. Thinking of giving this stuff a shot.
 
65Valiant:

I would be interested in the exact type of LED replacement you used. I have never found one even close to the output 1157 in the daytime - or I sure would not have put this much work in to it.

If you mean the gaskets for the lenses themselves, you can buy them from http://www.detroitmuscletechnologies.com/

I simply cut my own from EVA foam sheet:

BUgasket.jpg


If you are looking for the molded trim that goes around the outer edge of the housing between the housing & body - they are very hard to find. They were injection molded, and can't be cut from flat sheet.

B.

There are a total of three gaskets. The round one you have shown. Then there is a foam one on the back. Finally a rubber bumper between the foam gasket and the body. I know Laysons has the foam between the bumper and tail light housing and I think they also have the bumper. If he doesn't you can get it from

http://shop.detroitmuscletechnologies.com/64-65-Barracuda_c36.htm
 
do you have a good source for the Cycloaliphatic epoxy. I am also in the desert and have the same sun problems you have. Thinking of giving this stuff a shot.

Sorry, I missed this post.

You can get a decent cyclo in small quantities from Aeromarine. They sell it for things like outdoor traffic surfaces:

http://www.aeromarineproducts.com/rock-pebble-deck.htm

They call it 300/21, and it is similar to what I have been using. If it is ok outside on an AZ pool deck it will be fine in a taillight. Aeromarine has the proper colorant for this material as well

Be aware that this stuff is epoxy. It bonds to things very well. It will even bond to a silicone mould sometimes. Use a release agent like Sprayon S00311 on any mould. Be patient. At 75f this stuff is thin, and you can pour it easily. Let it cure for 24 hours before demolding.

B.
 
You can get a decent cyclo in small quantities from Aeromarine. They sell it for things like outdoor traffic surfaces:

http://www.aeromarineproducts.com/rock-pebble-deck.htm

They call it 300/21, and it is similar to what I have been using. If it is ok outside on an AZ pool deck it will be fine in a taillight. Aeromarine has the proper colorant for this material as well

I'm not finding the colorant. Link plee-uz?
 
Nice, thank you. I am going to use a 1 time usage plaster cast. $33 is CHEAP. thanks for the hookup
 
Not to take anything away from making your '65 Valiants into modern cars, but I have found if you put aluminum foil behind the bulb glued to the base to reflect the light better it brightens the bulb enough. I had to do that on a '75 Dart to be able to see the brake light.

I amnot sure if this is allowed but I sell the lenses for the '64, '65 and '66 Valinats. They are driver quality but not for 100 point resturations.
 
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