Valve seal replacement

-
oldjunk

oldjunk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
184
Reaction score
10
Location
maryland
Hey guys,
So I went ahead and started to replace my seals today and had a few questions. I purchased fel-pro valve stem seals for the intake and exhaust for my 72 340 duster. After pulling the rocker arm shaft and valve springs off, I noticed the seals that are in my car do not look like the ones I bought. Now, I know that I have x-heads (non-original to my car), but I thought that wouldn't matter. I took some pics for you guys so you can see what I mean. Do I need to get a different set or will the ones I bought work? I bought fel-pro part# ss17004. Also, do the rocker arms/valves/springs look original to this head or has this head redone? Thanks.
 

Attachments

  • valve1.JPG
    53.6 KB · Views: 1,084
  • valve10.JPG
    31.1 KB · Views: 988
  • valve9.JPG
    31.4 KB · Views: 980
  • valve8.JPG
    37.3 KB · Views: 949
  • valve7.JPG
    36.9 KB · Views: 999
  • valve6.JPG
    35.7 KB · Views: 926
  • valve5.JPG
    34.1 KB · Views: 980
  • valve4.JPG
    67.5 KB · Views: 971
  • valve3.JPG
    50.2 KB · Views: 979
  • valve2.JPG
    70.1 KB · Views: 968
here is a pic of the fel-pro seals.
 

Attachments

  • seals.JPG
    30.4 KB · Views: 1,157
If those are single springs with just a flat wire damper, the Fel Pro seals should work fine. The seals you have on the engine are a better quality though.....but obviously worn. It's really your call. But whatever you decide, you need to be sure to use the little nipple that slides over the valve stem before you slide on the new seal. The sharp edge from the valve tip can cut new seals going on. Also lube them up with motor oil too. Those ols seals will pull right off with pliers. If you decide to go back with those type, you can use an open end wrench that spans to the top of the metal seal housing and tap them in place with a small hammer. I normally use a socket, but you cannot do that with the valves installed.
 
StrokerScamp said:
If those are single springs with just a flat wire damper, the Fel Pro seals should work fine. The seals you have on the engine are a better quality though.....but obviously worn. It's really your call. But whatever you decide, you need to be sure to use the little nipple that slides over the valve stem before you slide on the new seal. The sharp edge from the valve tip can cut new seals going on. Also lube them up with motor oil too. Those ols seals will pull right off with pliers. If you decide to go back with those type, you can use an open end wrench that spans to the top of the metal seal housing and tap them in place with a small hammer. I normally use a socket, but you cannot do that with the valves installed.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info strokerscamp. This is my first time doing this so excuse my ignorance. When you say single spring with a flat damper what do you mean? The springs have what looks to be another spring running inside them which is flat. Is that what you mean by flat wire damper? So I just grab that seal by that metal band surrounding it and pull? Then just put that plastic tube over the valve ( I think you called it a nipple) and slide the new lubed seal in its place. Now you said, I cannot tap them in place with a socket with the valves installed? Do I have to pull the head? If you were in my shoes, what brand/type of seals what you get? I don't want to have to do this again. I would rather go with some high quality seals. Thanks for bearing with me, I greatly appreciate it.
 
..................Those r the original type spring 4 that head..........the seals u got r fine........make sure u use the deep seal on the intake valve..........slide it down till it touches the guide....they will find there place as soon as u run it......kim................
 
As stroker said, what you need is tubing/ socket (deep socket?) that fits down over the valve stem, allowing you to drive the seals down onto the guides.
 
Thanks all for your help with the :newb:. Anyone have any info on my heads? Looks like the casting date is 5/69 any idea what they would have originally been on? What is the number on the rocker arms...part number?
 
I pulled the exhaust guide off (first pic). Is this all there was? Looks like a piece of plastic with a spring inside with a metal band around it. Or do I have to pull more of it off (see pic 2)? Am I now looking at the valve guide?
 

Attachments

  • pulled1.jpg
    54.7 KB · Views: 958
  • pulled2.jpg
    104.5 KB · Views: 932
This is the exhaust valve. Let me know if I put this on right. Something tells me I didn't. The seal is just floating there. It's just resting above what I'm guessing is the valve guide. I can just move it up and down on the stem. There is about a quarter inch gap between the seal and where the spring bottoms out.
 

Attachments

  • install1.jpg
    121.9 KB · Views: 980
ok...your old seal are teflon seals...the guides were machined for those to fit...

your new seals should fit snuggly over the guide...if it does not then you have the wrong size seals...

get a mike and measure the diameter of the guide...should be either .500 or .531...

you probably have .500 guides...and now have .531 seals....if that is the case...they will not work....

you will need to get .500 seals.....

and if you just walked up to the part store and asked for seals...they will give you the stock size ....so until you get the head apart and find out the heads have been worked on...
 
70aarcuda said:
ok...your old seal are teflon seals...the guides were machined for those to fit...

your new seals should fit snuggly over the guide...if it does not then you have the wrong size seals...

get a mike and measure the diameter of the guide...should be either .500 or .531...

you probably have .500 guides...and now have .531 seals....if that is the case...they will not work....

you will need to get .500 seals.....

and if you just walked up to the part store and asked for seals...they will give you the stock size ....so until you get the head apart and find out the heads have been worked on...
Click to expand...

70aar,
Thanks for the response. Ok, this makes sense. If i get the right ones, do I have to take the heads off or can I still just put them on with the heads on the car...tap them in with a socket and hammer?
 
they should come with a little plastic too that goes over the valve stems....

i just spray them with wd40 and they slide on...
 
oldjunk said:
Thanks all for your help with the :newb:. Anyone have any info on my heads? Looks like the casting date is 5/69 any idea what they would have originally been on? What is the number on the rocker arms...part number?
Click to expand...

#2531894 are the large valve 340 heads (2.02 x 1.60) Next to the TA's you have the best stock production 340 head made back then. Kudos to you for digging into your valve project. This is how you learn how it works. You'll be a seasoned pro when your done with this. Stroker project next???:grin: Sport
 
You need to replace what is coming off with the same style of seals. They have teflon or viton and they can be gotten in various diameters to fit the guide that was cut down. Not using the positive type seals in that application may make the oil use worse. Get the right seals. A machine shop can order them if you can't find them thru like SUmmit or Jegs.
 
X heads were the best flowing "as cast" heads, came only on 340's. Stock 273 adjustable rockers, stock 340 valve springs. Exhaust short umbrella seals are OK, do not use teflon seals for a street engine. Use aftermarket positive seals on the intakes. They will look similar to what you are taking off, but should be Viton for longest service life. And as said earlier should seal to the valve guide also, they should push on by hand.
 
Go to your local machine shop and ask from a set of viton positive seals.
Like mentioned those are crane teflon seals that wear on the valve stem more and get hard with heat faster, if Im not mistaken.
use the lil sleeve to slide over the stems, keeping the grooves from cutting the new seals.
 
Thanks all for your help. I went to sears and bought a dial caliper. Looks like

my guides are .53 and the valve stems 3/8. Going to call a couple machine

shops to see if they have the Viton seals. If not, I'll get them online. :burnout:
 
So I finished the drivers side seals today. Replaced rocker arm assembly, torqued all bolts to spec and coated the valvetrain in motor oil. Engine fired right up and no more blue smoke:cheers:. Except now I have a bigger problem:angryfir:. I have a loud knocking sound coming from what I believe is the passenger side! I made sure all pushrods were seated in their lifters and all rocker arms seated in the cups of the rods...and then double checked. Pulled both covers off and could not see any damage or anything out of the ordinary. Also, the fast idle speed is 2x what is was before I changed the seals. I don't know why this is. I made no carb adjustments. My drivers side exhaust was blowing nice and clean while the passenger side was blowing short burst of white smoke...but it didnt seem to look like blown head gasket. I think it was just condensation (it was cold and wet today) I have true dual exhaust on the car. What could I have possibly done??? Any ideas would be appreciated.
 
you could have a really worn intake valve guide and its causing a vacuum leak, those umbrella seals are not as good as the positive type with the spring.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
did you loose a wrench down in there??

Is a cyl missing?

did you tap the valve tips/make sure the locks were seated in place good?
Click to expand...

Nope, never dropped a thing in the head. I marked all plug wires prior to pulling them and put them back exactly the way they were. Yep, all locks were tapped and seated. I did take the cover back off and triple checked all my work. I could not see anything out of the ordinary. Do I need to adjust my rocker arms? How are the ductile iron arms adjusted? I noticed that a buch of pushrods could be spun back and forth once the shaft was torqued to spec (210 in lbs). Is that normal?
 
oliver said:
you could have a really worn intake valve guide and its causing a vacuum leak, those umbrella seals are not as good as the positive type with the spring.
Click to expand...

I got some comp cams viton positive seals. They worked great and fit very nicely. I didnt use the umbrella seals
 
Guitar Jones said:
You definetly need to readjust the valves. Is it solid or hydraulic?
Click to expand...

That I don't know. I bought this car restored already. It's a real PITA not knowing the specifics about my car. Is there any way I can tell besideds pulling the intake and inspecting the lifters? Most of my car is stock, so I'm guessing hydraulic...but who knows. Can the push rods be a clue? I know that the rods themselves had numbers printed on them. Can the ductile iron arms be used with both hydraulic and solid? I do have a telescopic magnet. Would I be able to pull on out to inspect it that way?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top