Viper Dart Suspension questions

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snapetwo

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I am attempting to prep my car for a viper transplant. I have access to a viper engine and tranny for a decent cost.

My question is this. If I left the stock torison bars or ever upgraded to heavy duty TB on a 73 dart, an i managed to massage that v10 into the engine..Would the suspension hold up? I am not talking about brakes or anything, as Im upgraded the discs regardless. What about handling? Steering column? etc.

Anyone have any idea? From what I read the v10 weights close to 800lbs...and the 426 whats about 720lbs..close. And people did make 426 darts before everyone was all crazy about the mustang II and magnum force tubular front end coversions.

anyone input greatly appreciated.
Thanks
 
That sounds maybe a little on the heavy side for the engine, but I don't know what all you're including either. I've heard closer to 700 pounds for the Viper on, not sure about the truck V10 (iron block vs. aluminum). Either way I think you'd be okay, they have some pretty hefty torsion bars out there, but I might consider strengthening the torsion bar crossmember and K frame to be safe.
 
Ty for the reply.
thats a good idea, maybe get some plate and weld it up. i am gonna subframe it, so i could tie the plate into the subframe, then weld to the torison bar anchor..as far as k-member, dunno about that one, dunno what i would do.
 
Dick Ross at Firm Feel has been beefing up K frames for years. Go to their website and check them out. If you do not want to spend the money to have them do it for you, and are good at seeing what is needed and making templates (patterns) and know how to run a wire machine, reinforcing the K frame yourself isn't hard (especially after seeing the pictures on the Firm Feel website), it's just time consuming. You can buy the coupon kit from them like I did to speed things up, but making up your own reinforcing bits from scrap steel isn't hard and doesn't take all that much more time. I'll make up my own for the next one and save the coupon kit money for something else.
 
talk to swisswill.... he's the resident Viper guy... He is the closest person out of any of us working on the same swap out of the VERY limited few even attempting to try this type of engine swap.... Check out the restoration pages... his build is very well documented. he's putting it in a Dart.
 
TY, i'll do that. I know not alot of people seem to be doing it, and i could go with a more "classic" engine...but i dont' wanna be like everyone else. And I can't afford the viper, so might as well make one. ha
 
The suspension will hold up, I'd get a set of 1.03" or 1.06" torsion bars, box the lower control arms and probably run tubular uppers.

I think your issue will be getting an exhaust system to clear the torsion bars and a pan to clear the K member, not sure how the V10's are set up for their manifold exit locations or oil pans. That pesky firewall might be in the way too. :D

K frame reinforcement isn't all that hard if you can weld, I've TIG welded one and MIG welded another. The plates to box the steering mount are pretty easy to make, and extra thick washers can be used to reinforce the LCA pivot and strut rods (if you don't use adjustable strut rods, which I probably would). With a MIG it doesn't even take all that long.

You'll also want to install subframe connectors. I'd look into other chassis stiffening as well if you really want it to handle well, like a tubular radiator support, J bars etc. Check with Badart on here, or at his online store here.
 
I'd have to see that joker on the scale to believe it was 800 pounds. I ain't buyin it.
 
snapetwo said:
TY, i'll do that. I know not alot of people seem to be doing it, and i could go with a more "classic" engine...but i dont' wanna be like everyone else. And I can't afford the viper, so might as well make one. ha
Click to expand...

I know the feeling. I'm putting a Gen 3 in a 71 Demon.... Its a ton more expensive, but its been a dream project in planning the last 2 years... currently in body mod and fabrication stage.
 
Thank you all so much, 72 great info and pointers, appreicate it.
Demon, ya i am debating still myself between 3g hemi or viper...Viper sure as hell has a shock value that is pushing me...3g shares same block/bolt pattern as the 360 block from what ive read, however so does the viper v10 w just to more cylinders.


Lotta info, lotta thinking to do.
 
the viper will also require specially wiring, a computer flash program, custom motor mounts due to location, cutting up the trans tunnel, new cross members, etc etc etc which all come with big $$$$. That's why I am doing all of my body mods, sheet metal work, custom fab'd stuff etc... then if my sick twisted brain still wants to attempt the viper gen 3 motor once the car is at a point I could stick a 360 in it and be done... then I'll do it... You figure your spending $8-$10,000 just for the Viper engine.... you can put a lot of other cheaper engines in.... I'm just seeing if I can talk myself into another route... so far after tons of money and 2 years later, its still the engine that I am planning for as I get closer to having to buy one... But I've already mini tubbed, triangulated 4 link'd, frame connected, and alterka'd the car... So there than body panel repairs in the planning stage now... My decision will most likely hit me around spring of 2013 when I am ready to buy a motor...

Good luck with your thinking process.
 
Im anxious to see pics of the transplant! this will be more wicked than the V10 beetle i saw! IMO
 
demon34071 said:
the viper will also require specially wiring, a computer flash program, custom motor mounts due to location, cutting up the trans tunnel, new cross members, etc etc etc which all come with big $$$$.
Click to expand...

Expect this plus headers (???) and all kinds of fab to squeeze that thing in between a firewall and a radiator, in addition to the trans tunnel. I'm not sure the oil pan will clear the K-member either so you'll need to either build/buy a custom pan, or look at the truck pan which is rear sump. I measured once, and I'm pretty sure it will fit in a stock bodied car (not 100% positive though because my radiator was not in the car), but you will have a whole lot of weight bias up front without the engine setback into the firewall. If the 426 Hemi is an elephant, this thing is a whale. It's LOOOOONG, and heavy. Depending on the generation engine, expect 700-750 pounds. Gen 3, 4, and very late Gen 2 motors have cast internals while Gen 1 and early Gen 2 have forged. I would expect, in a stock suspended vehicle, torsion bars are going to be a BIG issue because of headers; that's a lot of tube to work around. I think the stock suspension, upgraded of course, can handle it, but I'm not convinced the car will handle given the weight bias. You'll have at least 2, if not 2.5 cylinders in front of the front axle centerline, plus all the accessories.

Mine isn't a great comparison because I've got mine set WAY back (number 1 cylinder lines up with the front axle center line), custom chassis and everything else. But I've done a fair amount of research on the engine itself, though only a bit about fitting it in a stock bodied car, and even less in a stock suspended car. If you have questions though, I'll do what I can to answer them.
 
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