W2 Head education

[A body]

If I’m investing in a W build I’d go the stretch and use good parts. High RPMs can cause you to spend more of that money you thought you saved. We actually ran into an issue on our 1st W5 where harmonics cracked six of the roller lifter bodies. Was found after we had to pull the motor due to coolant leaking into the #3 port. Cam design, springs, pushrods..... we somehow created the perfect storm. Another set of lifters and another set of pushrods (thicker wall) and it lived another 150 passes before the coolant leak reared it’s ugly head again... have I mentioned my love of W5? At least the lifters were still happy

 

[yellow rose]

If I’m investing in a W build I’d go the stretch and use good parts. High RPMs can cause you to spend more of that money you thought you saved. We actually ran into an issue on our 1st W5 where harmonics cracked six of the roller lifter bodies. Was found after we had to pull the motor due to coolant leaking into the #3 port. Cam design, springs, pushrods..... we somehow created the perfect storm. Another set of lifters and another set of pushrods (thicker wall) and it lived another 150 passes before the coolant leak reared it’s ugly head again... have I mentioned my love of W5? At least the lifters were still happy

What lifters???

 

[yellow rose]

But flow numbers tell you a story. When the head backs up it’s telling you it needs something. Same with airspeeds.

I totally understand. But what's happening is people are trying to compare a flow number from heads that have no business being compared.

300 CFM from a W2 sized port is going to make more power than 300 CFM on a standard sized port. It's that simple really.

Using flow numbers to compare dissimilar architecture is a bad way to look at cylinder heads.

 

[yellow rose]

Would you want the strongest pushrod in the world if you miss a shift? I sure wouldn't.

Nope. If all you ever run is 400 pounds over the nose than pushrods are not as important. After that, they are about as important as you can get.

You can't get a PR that is too stiff. If your pushrods move and flex, you are adding harmonics to the valve train. And you can't control them.

That is bad. Very bad. I've seen pushrods that we're moving .080 maybe a bit more. After a freshen up that was rings and bearings, touching up the valve job and buying real pushrods, the engine went back on the dyno and picked up over 500 RPM and I forget how much more power it made...30-40 maybe I forget.

When it came in a year later, the valve job looked perfect, the springs took a .030 shim and he was done.

Wimpy pushrods make no sense.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Nope. If all you ever run is 400 pounds over the nose than pushrods are not as important. After that, they are about as important as you can get.

You can't get a PR that is too stiff. If your pushrods move and flex, you are adding harmonics to the valve train. And you can't control them.

That is bad. Very bad. I've seen pushrods that we're moving .080 maybe a bit more. After a freshen up that was rings and bearings, touching up the valve job and buying real pushrods, the engine went back on the dyno and picked up over 500 RPM and I forget how much more power it made...30-40 maybe I forget.

When it came in a year later, the valve job looked perfect, the springs took a .030 shim and he was done.

Wimpy pushrods make no sense.

Well I guess if you're runnin W2 and W5 stuff, you're spinnin it so hard that if somethin happens it's comin SLAM apart anyway. lol

 

[yellow rose]

Well I guess if you're runnin W2 and W5 stuff, you're spinnin it so hard that if somethin happens it's comin SLAM apart anyway. lol

I can tell you weird stuff about pushrods. Had a customer who kept bitching his lash was moving. Standard FT circle track deal. He was setting the lash before qualifying and then again before the main.

I'm thinking the cam is toast and it's a matter of time before that turd comes back in and I get to eat a cam warranty.

I go to the track and watch him set the valves. Perfect. Goes out and qualifies. They are loose again. So I set them. In the main he could hear them clattering so he pulled off. Called it a night and I said pull the hunk of **** and bring it in.

The cam was perfect. What we later learned was the pushrods were flexing, developing harmonics at just the right frequency that would actually make the adjuster back off. Not very far, but enough you could hear it.

Bought bigger, thicker pushrods and fixed it. I've seen that stuff so many times you can't count it. Locks pounded out. Retainers best to ****. Valve job looks like it was beat on with a hammer.

Resonance frequency is a *****. It will make you do things you never thought you'd do. And it's kinda tough to figure it out.

 

[mbaird]

Yep ... The W2 motor in my 73 Dart sport only made 345 RWHP on the chassis DYNO then pretzeled 3 pushrods... I called Comp and ordered another set for the Comp solid roller cam and matching lifters... Pretzeled some more .... called Comp and ordered another set then called to confirm part # once I got them and the tech said they don’t make a pushrod for that application ! Pfff...
Ordered Smith Bros and the car ROCKED !

 

[yellow rose]

Yep ... The W2 motor in my 73 Dart sport only made 345 RWHP on the chassis DYNO then pretzeled 3 pushrods... I called Comp and ordered another set for the Comp solid roller cam and matching lifters... Pretzeled some more .... called Comp and ordered another set then called to confirm part # once I got them and the tech said they don’t make a pushrod for that application ! Pfff...
Ordered Smith Bros and the car ROCKED !

Is that the engine you are now using??? Did you actually post the dyno numbers??? Damn I was waiting for that.

 

[B3422w5]

I can tell you weird stuff about pushrods. Had a customer who kept bitching his lash was moving. Standard FT circle track deal. He was setting the lash before qualifying and then again before the main.

I'm thinking the cam is toast and it's a matter of time before that turd comes back in and I get to eat a cam warranty.

I go to the track and watch him set the valves. Perfect. Goes out and qualifies. They are loose again. So I set them. In the main he could hear them clattering so he pulled off. Called it a night and I said pull the hunk of **** and bring it in.

The cam was perfect. What we later learned was the pushrods were flexing, developing harmonics at just the right frequency that would actually make the adjuster back off. Not very far, but enough you could hear it.

Bought bigger, thicker pushrods and fixed it. I've seen that stuff so many times you can't count it. Locks pounded out. Retainers best to ****. Valve job looks like it was beat on with a hammer.

Resonance frequency is a *****. It will make you do things you never thought you'd do. And it's kinda tough to figure it out.

You are right about thick pushrods. On my 422 W5 motor i ran 3/8 and 7/16 pushrods.
Best Machine( who slapped it together) really extolled the virtues of stiff and thick quality pushrods.
That motor saw 7500 at the stripe every pass. I raced it 7 years( often) with one freshen up.
As far as i know the pushrods and Jesel sportsmen rocker gear are still in use to this day with new owner.
The guys at Best know how to make Mopar power. One of it not THE top Mopar engine shop in the country.

 

[mbaird]

Is that the engine you are now using??? Did you actually post the dyno numbers??? Damn I was waiting for that.

No... that was a motor from the 90s.
This motor should be way faster ! Grew tired of waiting for DYNO guy and assembled the car . hHe called me 2 months ago
Had a problem child Chevy motor tying up his DYNO for a while I guess...?

 

[mbaird]

Unless it blows up first run! Lol

 

[A body]

What lifters???

They were Comp.... would have to do some digging for the part number

 

[Duane]

You are right about thick pushrods. On my 422 W5 motor i ran 3/8 and 7/16 pushrods.
Best Machine( who slapped it together) really extolled the virtues of stiff and thick quality pushrods.
That motor saw 7500 at the stripe every pass. I raced it 7 years( often) with one freshen up.
As far as i know the pushrods and Jesel sportsmen rocker gear are still in use to this day with new owner.
The guys at Best know how to make Mopar power. One of it not THE top Mopar engine shop in the country.

Did the 7/16 ones make more power?

 

[B3422w5]

Did the 7/16 ones make more power?

Ran 7/16 on exhaust, 3/8 on intakes.
All i know is it helped contribute to a rock solid valvetrain

 

[Duane]

Ran 7/16 on exhaust, 3/8 on intakes.
All i know is it helped contribute to a rock solid valvetrain

That's very interesting. Any specific reason for the exhaust to have a larger diameter?

 

[B3422w5]

That's very interesting. Any specific reason for the exhaust to have a larger diameter?

Chuck@ Best Machine said to use the biggest pushrod you can wherever you can. Don't think they could get any bigger on the intakes
I ask him about the extra weight, he said its worth it

 

[yellow rose]

That's very interesting. Any specific reason for the exhaust to have a larger diameter?

I was going to go out and measure some Pistons tonight, but I can barely walk. So I'll do that in the morning.

When I'm out there, I'll dig out my first W2 head and take a couple of pictures so you can see what a pain in the *** it is to get big pushrods in there. It ain't easy and takes some work to make it all fit.

These heads eventually made 650 or so HP at a bit over 8200. They are used up, but I keep them around for learning. I did a ton of **** wrong on these. But they did make some power.

 

[Duane]

I was going to go out and measure some Pistons tonight, but I can barely walk. So I'll do that in the morning.

When I'm out there, I'll dig out my first W2 head and take a couple of pictures so you can see what a pain in the *** it is to get big pushrods in there. It ain't easy and takes some work to make it all fit.

These heads eventually made 650 or so HP at a bit over 8200. They are used up, but I keep them around for learning. I did a ton of **** wrong on these. But they did make some power.

Pics would be great. I use an old set of 3/8 Mopar performance cut to length pushrods. The good ones from back in the day.
No clearance issues at all with my w2 heads but I never thought about a 7/16 pushrod whether they would clear.