Water pump pulley ratio high RPM offroad

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kursplat said:
if everyone else runs a certain setup without a problem, what's different about your setup?
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Mopar vs chevy / LS.

Big tires
Driving style lol. I'm pedal to the floor

I'll swap out the radiators. And if issues still show, I'll look at pump pulley. I'd like to change the pulleys regardless due to the fact I don't need a 4 belt crank as I only use two belts. So maybe i'll get the 1:1 ratio kit as well. Its just money...rite? lol
 
Small radiator I think. 18X18?
Fit what you can it you might have to go a little larger than what is easy to install.
 
If space is cramped, and it sounds like it is.
Then the more efficient the radiator is the better off you will be.
Do some research of radiator construction and it cooling capability, then pick a efficient radiator, that fit your space.

You say other like yours don't have a heating problem, HP= Heat! Turbos are creating heat from power as well as under hood heat.
I see you have a nice open hole in the hood. that's a plus.
Is your air filter getting cool air or is it inhaling hot air from under the hood.

Ign timing could also be a factor.
Remember, cruising down the highway, your not using up all you HP.
Sand suck HP out of your motor all day long. takes HP to have fun in it. Radiator has to match.
 
Cudafever said:
If space is cramped, and it sounds like it is.
Then the more efficient the radiator is the better off you will be.
Do some research of radiator construction and it cooling capability, then pick a efficient radiator, that fit your space.

You say other like yours don't have a heating problem, HP= Heat! Turbos are creating heat from power as well as under hood heat.
I see you have a nice open hole in the hood. that's a plus.
Is your air filter getting cool air or is it inhaling hot air from under the hood.

Ign timing could also be a factor.
Remember, cruising down the highway, your not using up all you HP.
Sand suck HP out of your motor all day long. takes HP to have fun in it. Radiator has to match.
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Very good points!!!!

I had this issue before I went turbo....however I do make more power now so the issue is the same or worse.

I found a nice griffen radiator on their web site that I could probably make fit. I just don't want to ruin the factory grill look.....but I could get pretty crafty and make something work. I after all have a CNC plasma cutter in my garage lol.

That was for a hood scoop that did not work as planned. I plan to replace the hood at some point. I did have hood louvers on it to let heat out.

The turbo does suck hot air in. I do have a water injection to cool the intake as there is NO room for an intercooler. I get my intake temps down to about 110* at 7-8 psi. Ignition timming could be an issue. I do need to work the table. May not solve the issue, but it definitely will help!

As of rite now, I'm going to install a bigger radiator....it won't hurt! I'll probably weld some AN bungs on it as well so I don't have to cobble two upper hoses together creating a bottle neck of sorts.
 
I'm not a fan of those dual and triple lass radiators. They are a HUGE restriction in coolant flow and you NEED coolant flow. That's an issue right there.

Also, the pulley speed is NOT your issue or even an issue. You can get rid of the design you don't like, but keep the pump speed UP. The system was designed with the water pump overdriven. That's the way IT should be.

All the heroes, gurus, thumb sucking bubblegummers, wannabes, fence leaners and now keyboard wonks think you're killing HP with an overdriven water pump. You're not. You're killing power with your inability to control the engine temps. That's bad. Very bad.

You'll know when the pump speed is too high. That's when you can't keep the belts on at RPM. Other than that, if you have a QUALITY pump (and you do) you can't overpseed the pump.

Big, 2 core, big tube radiator, a QUALITY thermostat (there is only one I can find and that's the Stewart Components thermostats) and your pump and you will be able to cool your engine under full load in the African desert.
 
yellow rose said:
I'm not a fan of those dual and triple lass radiators. They are a HUGE restriction in coolant flow and you NEED coolant flow. That's an issue right there.

Also, the pulley speed is NOT your issue or even an issue. You can get rid of the design you don't like, but keep the pump speed UP. The system was designed with the water pump overdriven. That's the way IT should be.

All the heroes, gurus, thumb sucking bubblegummers, wannabes, fence leaners and now keyboard wonks think you're killing HP with an overdriven water pump. You're not. You're killing power with your inability to control the engine temps. That's bad. Very bad.

You'll know when the pump speed is too high. That's when you can't keep the belts on at RPM. Other than that, if you have a QUALITY pump (and you do) you can't overpseed the pump.
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^^^^^^^^^^^THIS!!!^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Oh yeah, I am not a underdrive pulley believer at all!

Great comments though. I will switch over to a normal style radiator to keep the flow up.

Thanks all! Will try and remember to post a follow up when summer hits and I get to test it out.
 
before you change radiators check timing if its low it can cause over heat also install restrictor in place of thermostat a little larger then your t stat diameter now
 
Plato2k5 said:
Oh yeah, I am not a underdrive pulley believer at all!
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There good for 1,2 & maybe 3 hp.
Stronger the build, the wider the gap. But it’s still super small gains. I got a good deal on mine. Otherwise I would bother. Not on a street mill.
 
water pump have a solid impeller or a plate behind the fins to prevent cavitation and increase flow?
 
Can you cut some holes in the back of your hood? We had similar issues with a turbo rally car (hot when running hard and then having to sit at the end of a stage or go slow), and just jacking up the rear of the hood to give a 3/4" gap at the back helped immensely. Your turbo is putting a lot of heat in under the hood that most folks don't deal with, and a closed hood traps that plus can be an airflow limitation up front.

As said, multiple pass radiators is for a different issue so I'd avoid that. Your initial post of a 'good radiator' is debatable without seeing it. Also, the fan and shroud are also in question..... many electric fans are just junk and will not flow anything close to their advertised flow when put behind a rad. What brand is your fan? And is there a good sized gap between the shroud and the rad ? I see too many shrouds that hug the rad and are an arirflow restriction. A pix of the setup would help.

And I see that retarded timing was just mentioned. Need to be careful with the boost there.
 
Wyrmrider said:
water pump have a solid impeller or a plate behind the fins to prevent cavitation and increase flow?
Click to expand...

stock water pump has no plate, water pump housing(timing chain cover) is the plate and the impeller is a distance away from it.
I had a piece of aluminum welded in to the housing. Then then had it machined so that the impeller would just touch it, without the water pump gasket.
Mine is a drag race application and electric motor and belt driving my water pump.

There is a thread over at Moparchat thats called SB Oval Track Cooling. By "sanborn"
He goes into great detail on how to keep a sb mopar cool. GREAT article to read!!!!!

The first thing he talks about is buying the most "efficient alu radiator " you can fit into your ride.

The 2nt thing was the water pump.
 
so first get the trany cooler out of the airflow with it's own fan
good high flow water pump
we cut circles from thin sheetmetal and tack welded to the back of the impeller but you can buy pumps with better impellers now
I'll try and read that thread posted
then consider radiator
 
He gets real in depth with keeping a eng cool that has to run 6-7500 rpm for hours on end.
I followed some of his block mods and the water pump mod.

I can hot lap my car and never overheat! it hasn't been driven on the street thow.

It's a great article.
Any one that wants/need to improve the cooling system should read it.
Hope it's still there. It was like 3 years ago that i followed Sanborn's thead while i was building my eng.
also followed most of his oil mods as well.

The oil mod can be found here on one of the sticky. By Guitar Jones. called Any one interested in the oiling mods I did?

 
Take the hood off and run it, see how much the temps drop.
I do know how tight a small block is in a jeep, I built a CJ with a 340 years ago, never did have heating issues.
 
Timing is decent... not the best, not the worst. I also need to add more fuel to run more rich to aid in cooling. Rite now I'm around 12:1 at 7 psi. Need to bring that down to around 10.5.

The water pump has a plate on the impellers.

I could jack the rear of the hood up...but I would imagine that giant hole acts as the same? I run NO fenders as well on my jeep. So there is no inner fender as well.

I say good radiator due to the fact that this is what most everyone runs lol. The fan is a SPAL I think..... it does have S blades and not straight. The shroud is just bent aluminum and is maybe 3/4" gap??? Going from memory. Jees is in a shipping container till I clean my garage to bring it in so can't look at the moment.

I will have to look at that article. Thanks for the heads up!

I plan to get the trans cooler mounted away. Been meaning to do that for some time and never got around to it. I have a high flow pump already (flowkooler).

Oil cooler would be nice...but again, there is ZERO room for one.

I always meant to take the hood off, and just never did for some reason.

My current plan is to take the grill off. Draw a CAD model of the grill and cut it on my CNC plasma out of 1/8" steel. That will open up A TON of room for a radiator. I'll shove the biggest sum beetch in there that I can. I'll play with my VE table and add fuel in boost, I'll rig up some det cans and mess with the timing.
 
you can put a heater valve with a cable in the thermostat bypass hose
the 361-413 truck motor has a thermostat that closes the bypass when the thermostat opens for a reason- lots' of new cars do also- for a good reason
 
3/4" gap from rad to shroud may a bit too tight and restricting flow. Fans can really drop a lot of flow if the pressure drop gets just a little too much. Assuming that fan is right at the back of the shroud.....

Seems like no inner fenders ought to let a lot of heat out of the engine compartment. And yes, holes in hood work good too.

Keep in mind that 2x1.5" deep tube rows will cool better than 3x1" deep tube rows. A lot of the AL rads have more, but shallower, tube rows and don't do as well.
 
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