Well Crap it needs it all!

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Nomad8324

Nomad8324

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Picked up my 68 dart yesterday and the brake system is beyond toast.

Heres what the shop says:

"NEEDS COMPLETE BRAKE JOB FRONT AND REAR

ALL 4 WHEEL CLYINDERS - ALL 4 DRUMS - HARDWARE ALL AROUND

FRONT BRAKE HOSES - SHOES FRONT AND REAR - LF SHOES ARE SATURATED

GREASE SEALS AND REPACK BEARINGS - REAR SEALS ARE LEAKING NEEDS REAR BEARING ALSO

PASSENGER SIDE ENGINE MOUNT IS BAD

CAR SHOULD NOT BE DRIVEN"

So whats the best way to fix this without breaking the bank? Mechanic insisted when I told him I was eventually going to do front disc brakes that I could get some kit in a mopar magazine for disc front and all new hardware in the back for less then the $500ish front disc upgrade.

Another issue is they couldn't get the parts. I'm thinking that they might be available online perhaps though.

Thoughts or ideas?

Thanks
 
Good time to swap to front disc brakes. "IF" they actually measured all the drums. Sounds like the typical "chain" brake job.
 
time for you to get some tools-- or find a local honest fabo member & buy them some food/beverages.

start with the obvious-- leaking wheel cylinders will cause serious brake failure & makes the car unsafe to drive..

9" brake parts are not that hard to find-- you need to do some searching-- autozone, o'reilly's ,napa-- any of those places close by?

rear axle seal is a much bigger job ( that is, if even necessary).
brakes are vital to everyone's safety-- are relatively easy to fix--- but a thorough inspection is warranted to make sure all lines are in functional shape.

search this site-- for local members-- get creative & see if a local tech school might need to show it's class old school braking?
Good luck ,Lawrence
 
doing the work your self is the best way to save $$$$$$$$ so buy you a repair guide and go to work! Parts should run about 100 to 150 bucks maybe less to fix what's on your car. I bet you don't need all the parts they told you that you did.
 
I have no doubt it needs most if not all the things listed. Probably more.

When we picked it up hitting the brakes pulled the car HARD to the right. Had the shop look at it and saw most of the leaking bits myself. Upon reassembly it pulled slightly to the left but stopping power was extremely degraded.

Other then overheating and shaking at certain speeds (I assume the bad motor mount) it seems to be quite the runner. I think a tune up and electronic ignition and I'll love it even more so!

I took a bunch of pictures that I'll upload if i can find the right USB cable.

Thanks!
 
Old cars are expensive , learn how to work on them or be prepared to pay out the butt for repairs
 
GEO said:
Old cars are expensive , learn how to work on them or be prepared to pay out the butt for repairs
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No, NEW cars are expensive to fix. Old ones are like legos, everything unbolts....wheel cylinders are $4/pc. drums are ~20. shoes..probably get them for ~18 per axle. hardware kits $6/wheel. oil seals are $1.50. You can do entire job in an afternoon less than $160. Rockauto prices, dont include shipping but most of these parts are available at chain stores 1-2 day special order.
 
If you are wanting to upgrade the car for performance in the future now is a good time to think about upgrading to large bolt pattern suspension with front disc and a larger rear axle like an 8 1/4 or 8.75. F and M body spindles can be used with the later model large ball joint control arms and the 8.75 rear axle would allow you to go as big as 11 X 3" drums if you so desired.
 
mguner said:
If you are wanting to upgrade the car for performance in the future now is a good time to think about upgrading to large bolt pattern suspension with front disc and a larger rear axle like an 8 1/4 or 8.75. F and M body spindles can be used with the later model large ball joint control arms and the 8.75 rear axle would allow you to go as big as 11 X 3" drums if you so desired.
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X2. If you're going to spend the money, spend 10-15% more and get the best factory mopar pieces and bolt 'em together. Cheap, effective, and easy to do yourself. Get a Factory Service Manual and it will explain everything, most of it pictured. You can all you need with a little searching here for the dics upgrade and all kinds of other goodies.
 
pishta said:
No, NEW cars are expensive to fix. Old ones are like legos, everything unbolts....wheel cylinders are $4/pc. drums are ~20. shoes..probably get them for ~18 per axle. hardware kits $6/wheel. oil seals are $1.50. You can do entire job in an afternoon less than $160. Rockauto prices, dont include shipping but most of these parts are available at chain stores 1-2 day special order.
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the labor isn't and not all parts are easy and cheap to find , and on old cars some stuff just breaks when taking it apart

And finding a mechanic who is knowledgeable on older technology is harder to finder than ever.

That's why I started turning wrenches 35 years ago and do all my own work still
 
Do you have 9" or 10" drums?

Don't fall for the 10" bbp redrilled drums saga. They do not center on the hub register, ride uneven on the wheel studs and are 3/4 wider. Some member made a special ring to make the drum fit the register correctly.
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
Do you have 9" or 10" drums?

Don't fall for the 10" bbp redrilled drums saga. They do not center on the hub register, ride uneven on the wheel studs and are 3/4 wider. Some member made a special ring to make the drum fit the register correctly.
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This a "poverty" car. Cheapest everything and no A/C.

drums measure roughly 9 with the wheels on the car and from what I'm reading that stock for a base 68 270.

I'd love to add disc brakes but everything I looked at either was a parts list with a bunch of no longer available parts or a 500-1200+ kit for just the front brakes.

For that price I might just put new drums and hardware and get the car on the road rather then wait a year for funds or parts searching to get a "kit"
 
The rotors, spindles and calipers on my 68 came from an 85 5th Avenue and the control arms from a 74 Duster. The 8.75 rear axle was from a 69 Coronet 4dr. I can't recall the master cylinder right off but I think it was the smaller piston model for a P/U with manual brakes. I don't run a booster.
 
Nomad8324 said:
This a "poverty" car. Cheapest everything and no A/C.

drums measure roughly 9 with the wheels on the car and from what I'm reading that stock for a base 68 270.

I'd love to add disc brakes but everything I looked at either was a parts list with a bunch of no longer available parts or a 500-1200+ kit for just the front brakes.

For that price I might just put new drums and hardware and get the car on the road rather then wait a year for funds or parts searching to get a "kit"
Click to expand...

Right now you are in luck www.rockauto.crom has Wagner drums in stock for your car for $24.79 for the front and $20.79 for the rear. Brake shoes are on closeout for $5.37 per axle and the wheel cylinders are cheap too.

There should also be a 5% discount code floating around too so you can save even more money.
 
That may sound like a lot, but it's really not. If you aren't up to doing it, a 12 pack and a neighbor or friend work just fine. The parts are fairly cheap. I'd take a weekend and some beer and go to town.
 

On something that old I would seriously consider replacingall of the hard lines. I definitelywould if it were just a few years older with a single bowl master. (Then I would convert it to a dual) That car at least has a dual bowl redundantsystem so theoretically you could still stop if you lost a brake line. I would be very leery of putting miles onthose old brake lines.
 
Well after a bunch of research last night I'm thinking about getting a 8.8 rear out of an explorer having it one side trimmed to even it out and having it refreshed to maybe a 3.27 L

I can get a open rearend assembly for $100 nearby. The fun part will be finding a decent shop to do the work to cut and weld the assembly and add a Locker/Limited slip to it and not breaking the bank.

All this for rear disc brakes! lol

What recommendations do you guys have for matching the bolt pattern up front? Preferably not too expensive. lol

BTW here is the beast as she sits.

410128494.jpg


410128607.jpg


Also has huge crack in the windshield.
 
search disc brake swap-- 73-76 mopar a body cars -have all the parts needed to swap to disc brake & the 4.5" bolt circle pattern.(there are variations to this)

Not sure if the rear swap would be my first choice-- brakes are bias towards the front brakes-
If you are serious about disc brakes-- look for them there are probably a few sets for sale on this site-
shoot post up a want ad or look in your local craigslist/ salvage yard.

cool 68-- they have it's sister 69 model for sale close to me but it has 20 plus years of barn debris /field mice in it.( I have not convinced the wife we need it yet)

Good luck-- make a plan & ask questions-- it will be fixed in no time ,Lawrence
 
You might be making this too hard, but that depends on your overall plans for the car. Obviously, putting on better brakes right now would really be ideal, but you could rebuild your current setup real quick and cheap.

I was skeptical at what oklacarcollecto said above about them having your brakes, but I just checked, and he's right. They have the 9" front drums in stock, amazingly. I thought I had bought the last pair in existence a couple years ago, but apparently not. I don't really recommend keeping the 9" drums on the front, because the stopping power isn't stellar, BUT, it's what I have on my '72 still, and they're not THAT bad for around town driving. It would be the CHEAP way to get that thing on the road. But use common sense for your situation and intended current braking needs!

You could just get new drums, wheel cylinders, shoes, and a spring/hardware kit for the brakes you already have on both front and rear and have that thing on the road fast. Probably just get a new master cylinder too. And whatever you need for the axles. Check out the lines of course. But really, it would be pretty cheap just getting all the stock replacement stuff from Rockauto for the 9" drums all around and be done with it until you're ready to upgrade later, if you even decide you need to.

Don't pay a shop to do it. Replacing stock parts without any retrofitting of newer parts is about as easy as it gets. You could have your entire brake system rebuilt in just a few hours tops, even if you've never done it before, and I'd be surprised if it goes much over $200 shipped for all of it.

Oh yeah, and replacing the motor mount is easy too.

The disc/disc swap you're considering is good stuff, and obviously a way better braking solution, but definitely not the cheapest, quickest or easiest option.

Alternatively, rebuild the rear brakes as-is and use the Scarebird disc conversion on the front to retain the small bolt pattern on the front. Unless you REALLY want to swap to large bolt pattern for some other reason. Honestly, this is probably your best overall bang for the buck, and is what my plan for my '72 is.
 
You asked for thoughts so here's my 2cents: You obviously don't want to spend much $$ based on your posts...I wouldn't either. That's part of why I love this forum...I can do things myself cheaper and avoid mistakes others have made. This appears to be a great car to learn how to do a complete brake job on...and it sounds like it needs a good look over. Small bolt pattern (spb) drums are rare as mentioned before. Go scarf em up at rockauto.com as Oklacarcollector recommended. Even if yours turn out acceptable to use, the drums are rare and you can use them/sell them later. Ditto the find someone who's done it before and buy their favorite beverage comment...Mopar club in the area has been a good source of info to me for local talent. Local talent stumped or unavailable...experts here to help. That's a cool old car. Ask questions! Good luck getting it safe for the road.
 
Your 9" drum parts are very cheap and available. 10" rear drums are the hard part to find, but you don't have. 9" drums work fine for normal driving (drove 69 Dart with them for 3 decades). If you desire front disks, the Scarebird kit is affordable and easy to get parts later. Rear disks are just for show, rear drums work just as well. Any mechanic can work on drum brakes. They are the standard Bendix design used in a gazillion cars. But so could you. I know many women who change pads & shoes themselves. They just tried it and had little problem (using a manual, of course). Refer to the photo in the shop manual since there are many ways to assemble drum shoes wrong. Often the shoes have short & long linings. You put the short lining on the front shoe, on each side. Don't put the short linings on one side and the long linings on the other side, like the bozo who did the new brakes in my 64 Valiant. He also stuffed one "grease catcher cup" with new grease so it got all over the shoes. No wonder it pulled a bit to one side.

Your rear-end should last forever with your slant engine. You can get nice SBP wheels, like Cragars. So many change to BBP that you are in a buyer's market. There are also new SBP wheels, even 17" D if you like the current rubber-band tire look.
 
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