What are my options (harmonic balancer)

[JohnFM3]

I'd probably bore out the Jeep damper myself. Extra points if you can get a crank keyway cut to make the timing marks line up.

There are serpentine belt alternators that are close to bolt on; something off a 318 Magnum for example.

Not going to bother on moving the key, just make sure its deep enough with a broach cutter. Going to re knotch the timing marks on the outer ring. Jeep only has one little cut for 1 TDC, ECU handles all the timing from there. You can not even rotate the Distributor.

Most this work with be lathe work with exception of the broach work which I will use my press for.

 

[JohnFM3]

There are serpentine belt alternators that are close to bolt on; something off a 318 Magnum for example.

Follow up to this... Its my attempt to get away from the horrible mopar alt mounting solution for slant six, and goto more of a modern dodge v8 or jeep 4.0 where the front and back alt casing goes around a bracket and is held by a thru bolt. I also found a mopar slant six single wire Alt which I may consider. Depending on where I want the belt tension set, I may mount the bottom of alt solid to same bracket. In the air is whether I would go with a tensioner pulley, or make the power steering or alt move. Jeep uses a adjustable power steering pump to adjust the belt tension. On the slant six, this may be the better option due to space consideration.

 

[JohnFM3]

What the .... size is the harmonic balancer bolt? My research showed it was 3/4 - 16. Went to the hardware store and purchased a 2.5 inch long one, attempting to thread it into the crank, it felt like that was too big. I opted to buy a 5/8 - 18, and that slips right in inside the threads. Could it be metric??? grumble grumble grumble

 

[JohnFM3]

Is it possible that Chrysler used a metric bolt here? The 5/8 slid in the crank with the feeling of the threads touching. 5/8 going into a 3/4 would have way more room.

 

[MadScientistMat]

Not going to be metric unless somebody retapped it!

On my slant six, I just replaced the upper bracket with an adjustable rod assembly from Summit. Makes tensioning a lot easier.

 

[JohnFM3]

Found the issue. Starting thread of crankshaft damaged preventing the bolt to start. Will buy 3/4-16 bolt and washer again.

I need a new oem dampener to get the car running before I work on my serp project.

Any recommendations? I found new Dorman and ATP dampeners for slant six. Any recommendations on brand?

I seem to have an inner pulley attached to the back side of dampener. It didn’t look like the dampener was seated all the way on the crank. The grease line is about 1/2 inch in.

 

[JohnFM3]

Sorry for the fragmented sentence structure in prior post, hate writing post on the phone. Alternative is voice to text which isn’t very reliable for me.

 

[JohnFM3]

The starting threads in the crank were damaged. A uni-bit drill bit drilled the starting thread out allowing for the starting thread to be usable. Following cleaning, the bolt started threading on.

 

[JohnFM3]

Does the crank timing gear require a pulley puller to remove?

 

[JohnFM3]

Well, a borrowed pulley puller later and the gear is removed.

 

[JohnFM3]

Ok, I need to settle a argument with myself and copiliot. Doesnt the crank on a slant six rotate clockwise? I was confident I knew the answer, but now I find myself doubting my knowledge.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Ok, I need to settle a argument with myself and copiliot. Doesnt the crank on a slant six rotate clockwise? I was confident I knew the answer, but now I find myself doubting my knowledge.

Yes. Clockwise when looking from the front.

 

[JohnFM3]

Great, I need to do a better job searching for that info to give to copiliot. That then goes to the engineers to look at the backend for improvement.

After fighting with installing the timing chain cover... grumble grumble grumble... I have installed my dampener pulley. I dont believe I was using the pulley behind the dampener, is there any reason to install the pulley? Also, it looks like the dampener is not all the way on the crank. There is alittle over 1/2 in (.590 if my eyes havent failed me) from the snout of the crank and the surface of the dampener.

 

[JohnFM3]

Ok, this thread is morphing into a timing question.

I installed a JP Performance double roller timing set. I installed the crank pulley on the 0 degree key position, and pointed the cam gear dimple to the 0 degree mark on the crank. My NEW dampener pulley has marks every 120 degrees, and I painted the marks closes to the crank key with white paint. Set that mark to 8 degrees before top dead center, and locked the distributor in on the cyl 1 plug location (roughly 4 o`clock on the distributor above the vac advance canister).

When I check timing, the timing mark is about 60 (120 on the crank) degrees back according to my timing light, which has a dial to adjust the light flash timing.

What have I done? This makes absolutely no sense to me.
Could this be the result of the HEI multi spark module?

The car runs nice. Kinda has a bit of a thump to it. I need to finalize the distributor timing and dial in the carb. Should be a factory slant six other than the mod's I have made which is nothing more than Super Six intake with Holley 350. Double Roller timing set. And a HEI ignition module. But it almost seem like it may have a RV grind cam.

~ John

 

[JohnFM3]

BTW: The vacuum advance is unplugged at this time.

I have also installed the mechanical advance springs which shouldn't be active till the 2000 to 2800 rpm range.

 

[JohnFM3]

Ok, I got some pictures to support my work.

Crank Gear set to 0 as indicated by the crank key location (at the 3 o`clock position in the picture)

Timing marks of Cam sprocket aligned with the 0 degree mark on the crank gear.

Dampener Pulley mark near the crank key (marked with red around white) at 8 degrees BTDC

Distributor rotor pointing to mark on distributor indicating #1 pistion.

I am expecting this to be close, not see my light indicate on the mark 120 degrees (crank rotation) infront of the expected.

I guess this would be 240 degrees past the tdc mark in the rotation of the crank.

Thoughts?

 

[JohnFM3]

Well, here it is. Not the best video. Will do better next time. Throttle response seems nice. Will know more when I make first drive.

First Start of 1973 Duster after 10 yrs

 

[JohnFM3]

The problem with the timing may have been identified.

The distributor looks like it may be a overseas amazon cheapy. When its secured in the block, it can wiggle quite a bit. Now this wouldnt be the cause of the timing advance. But it would be the cause if the new MrGasket timing advance springs are being used on unknown counter weights.

My neighbor assisted by holding the throttle at over 2k as I watched the timing mark. At idle it was way over 50 and moving around 10 or so, and at 2500 rpm it was steady. This suggest that the mechanical adv is taking effect at idle. I priced out a new distributor from Napa at $150 plus core... wow. I remember when that was only $50.

I will purchase a new distributor for now, then buy the adv springs again abit later probably following new exhaust. 2.25 head pipe into a single in/dual out 40 series flowmaster and out dual 2in tail pipes with chrome tips.

As I recall my prior slant six engine I built 30 yrs ago, I replaced both adv springs in my custom slant six. I would assume that would be the case now. But maybe not.

 

[JohnFM3]

New premium distributor in stock form has been purchased. Should be delivered today.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I have been hesitant to state the purpose as I have seen threads who have suggested this project get torn down with the typical excuses. That said, the project is a Serpentine belt setup. I believe I can use 4.0 pulleys to make this work. My thought is to create a pulley on my lathe that bolts to the front of the dampener, and wraps over the dampener with a +.01 inch fit. Then use the jeep pulleys to complete the system. This is the reason for needing a smaller diam pulley, ideally with no groove. I retain as much weight as possible while giving myself space to get as close to the original slant six OD.

The other idea is to use a Jeep 4.0L harmonic balance. Slip press fit a outer ring to the crank seal surface to match the slant six, then turn the inner diam to 1.5 inch (from 1.125 I believe) and possibly re cut the crank key hole the extra 3/16 a inch. And to all who know me, they have seen my Jeep 4.0L in a Barracuda build thread. Those will understand my interest in Jeep 4.0L... lol

The jeep harmonic balancer route is very feasible. The mopar 440 route has some great benefits such as not having to cut the ID to match. Turning a drive pulley to wrap over the 440 dampener would be simple lathe work. The cost of Aluminum would be the largest hurdle to get over. And thats not that much. Assuming I go with aluminum and not some form of steel.

What about a later LA/Magnum setup? Those had serpentine belts from the factory. Seems that all you'd have to fabricate would be a crank pulley.

Though...considering most serpentine setups use a reverse rotation WP, how do you plan to deal with that?

 

[JohnFM3]

What about a later LA/Magnum setup? Those had serpentine belts from the factory. Seems that all you'd have to fabricate would be a crank pulley.

Though...considering most serpentine setups use a reverse rotation WP, how do you plan to deal with that?

To tackle the water pump issue, I could use the outer side (smooth side) of the belt against a smooth water pump pulley going underneath the water pump assuming I leave the alt on the passenger side. Could move it to the driver side and then wrap from the crank to the water pump to ps pump then a tensionor pulley back to the alt and make use of another idler to get back to the crank while going around the water pump. Currently working on getting the car running and stopping. Exhaust comes next, then I will tackle this.

 

[JohnFM3]

Ok, I am baffled. With new distributor installed at 8 degrees before TDC, the car idles at 950 rpm's (too high) and sits at 53 degrees advanced.

The only other thing I can consider is the influence is the multi-spark module causing issues with the timing light which may not be multi-spark compatible.

More to come

 

[RustyRatRod]

Verify 100% that the mark you have on the balancer is true TDC. Most ALL the new aftermarket balancers come with both early and late marks on them, so double check. I've actually seen new ones marked with one mark correct and the other mark about 180 degrees from where it should be. I've had to remark more than one.

 

[JohnFM3]

Verify 100% that the mark you have on the balancer is true TDC. Most ALL the new aftermarket balancers come with both early and late marks on them, so double check. I've actually seen new ones marked with one mark correct and the other mark about 180 degrees from where it should be. I've had to remark more than one.

I am absolutely sure it matches the orginal which looks like it was never changed. The new one has 3 marks 120 degrees apart. I painted the mark at the same location as compared to the original. Now I dont have a degree wheel, and I have not removed the head to confirm TRUE top dead center of #1 compared to the balancer mark I painted. So all I have is a assumption of correct for now. I also did the same with the crank and cam sprockets when aligned to 0 degrees for a factory install.

I may have to pull the head to confirm and at that time install a new RV grind cam with known numbers and properly degree the cam.

So after a lot of research, it is possible that my timing light is not multi-spark compatible and showing the last spark of the series which is why its so far off. Looking into buying a new timing light to confirm my suspicion.

 

[Jarlaxle]

To tackle the water pump issue, I could use the outer side (smooth side) of the belt against a smooth water pump pulley going underneath the water pump assuming I leave the alt on the passenger side. Could move it to the driver side and then wrap from the crank to the water pump to ps pump then a tensionor pulley back to the alt and make use of another idler to get back to the crank while going around the water pump. Currently working on getting the car running and stopping. Exhaust comes next, then I will tackle this.

But...won't that still have the WP spinning backwards?

I am absolutely sure it matches the orginal which looks like it was never changed. The new one has 3 marks 120 degrees apart. I painted the mark at the same location as compared to the original. Now I dont have a degree wheel, and I have not removed the head to confirm TRUE top dead center of #1 compared to the balancer mark I painted. So all I have is a assumption of correct for now. I also did the same with the crank and cam sprockets when aligned to 0 degrees for a factory install.

I may have to pull the head to confirm and at that time install a new RV grind cam with known numbers and properly degree the cam.

So after a lot of research, it is possible that my timing light is not multi-spark compatible and showing the last spark of the series which is why its so far off. Looking into buying a new timing light to confirm my suspicion.

You need a piston stop-gut an old spark plug, tap the inside, run a bolt through it. Screw it in the #1 cylinder. Crank the engine with a wrench until it hits the stop, mark the balancer, then turn it backwards until it hits again. Actual TDC is exactly between those points.