What are my options (harmonic balancer)

[JohnFM3]

But...won't that still have the WP spinning backwards?



You need a piston stop-gut an old spark plug, tap the inside, run a bolt through it. Screw it in the #1 cylinder. Crank the engine with a wrench until it hits the stop, mark the balancer, then turn it backwards until it hits again. Actual TDC is exactly between those points.

To address the WB question....
I will draw up the thought a bit later today and put it up. Its going to require me to relocate the alt to the location of the Power Steering and move the PS up higher on the driver side.

Stand by on that...

Regarding the piston stop, I totally forgot about that. And they are cheep. I think a degree wheel and piston stop purchase is in my near future.

 

[Jarlaxle]

To address the WB question....
I will draw up the thought a bit later today and put it up. Its going to require me to relocate the alt to the location of the Power Steering and move the PS up higher on the driver side.

Stand by on that...

Regarding the piston stop, I totally forgot about that. And they are cheep. I think a degree wheel and piston stop purchase is in my near future.

Don't even need a degree wheel.

 

[JohnFM3]

Ok, I have a working theory as to what is going on with the ignition. Upon talking to my neighbor who builds mostly classic Ford muscle and Model A roadsters with chevy engines, the working theory that I am going with is I am dealing with a leading edge trigger vs a tailing edge trigger ignition. The degree difference between leading edge vs Trailing edge of the cap and rotor contact would explain as to why the normal method of setting timing is so far off. We yanked the distributor and rotated rotor back 1 tooth and then got it to run and with the timing light at 8 degrees advanced (btdc). Now when at idle, it sits at 8 degrees, and when I go hi rpm (around 3k), the mechanical advance kicks in and it sits at 28 degrees. And with the vacuum advance setup, it goes to 39 degrees at low cruising speed.

For those who didnt see it in the earlier post, I have a 4 pin Pertronix HEI module with a GM ignition coil which has replaced my entire ignition system. Best part is the factory megnetic pickup distributor triggers the HEI module. This results in a multi spark ignition system with a programmable rev limiter set at 5500 rpms.

I will say, the engine sounds great with all the work done so far.

I will be moving my details to the new build thread on this car found here. (1973 Plymouth Duster repair and rebuild)

Thanks

 

[RustyRatRod]

No need to pull the head for that. You can use a piston stop.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I am absolutely sure it matches the orginal which looks like it was never changed. The new one has 3 marks 120 degrees apart. I painted the mark at the same location as compared to the original. Now I dont have a degree wheel, and I have not removed the head to confirm TRUE top dead center of #1 compared to the balancer mark I painted. So all I have is a assumption of correct for now. I also did the same with the crank and cam sprockets when aligned to 0 degrees for a factory install.

I may have to pull the head to confirm and at that time install a new RV grind cam with known numbers and properly degree the cam.

So after a lot of research, it is possible that my timing light is not multi-spark compatible and showing the last spark of the series which is why its so far off. Looking into buying a new timing light to confirm my suspicion.

You have MSD?

 

[JohnFM3]

You have MSD?

Not exactly. It’s something than I learned from some much smarter slant six owners than I.

You can hook a gm style hei control module to a external gm hei coil (such as from a 98 1500 with v8) and to both wires of a hal style distributor, and you get hei ignition system for early mopar. Just need 12v and ground. Buying the Pertronix HEI 3 control module provides multi spark.

I will follow up with pictures and a link to where I got the information from. This is a great solution for many applications, and it’s universal, just needs a magnetic pick up.

 

[JohnFM3]

Here is 1 picture I have of the system. More information to come tomorrow.

This based on a late 90’s gm v8 from trucks and suv’s.

 

[JohnFM3]

 

[RustyRatRod]

Ok HEI. S'all you had to say. lol I've never seen anything about timing lights malfunctioning with it, though. Maybe the coil is doing it.

 

[MadScientistMat]

In this case, it's an inductive multi spark ignition that happens to be in an HEI package. It's likely to do weird things with a dial back timing light, but a basic fixed light should be ok.

My experience if you trigger a HEI on the wrong edge is that the timing is rather unstable.

 

[RustyRatRod]

In this case, it's an inductive multi spark ignition that happens to be in an HEI package. It's likely to do weird things with a dial back timing light, but a basic fixed light should be ok.

My experience if you trigger a HEI on the wrong edge is that the timing is rather unstable.

Would a digital dial back light be any better?

 

[MadScientistMat]

Only if whoever coded the firmware accounted for widely spaced multiple sparks. Otherwise, to err is human, to really get it wrong requires a computer.

 

[JohnFM3]

I tried my old tried and true timing light with dial back, then borrowed my neighbors digital.

The assumption is if you time a slant six at 60+ degrees advanced, it idles and runs erratically. Showing up in the timing light as bouncing around +-10 around the 60. As soon as we re-timed it to 8 degrees advanced (by first rotating dist rotor back 1 tooth), we saw the timing mark sit rock solid at 8, and the mechanical adv start to work as we went thru the upper 2k range. And finally saw the vacuum advance work once it was installed. Further more, the engine sounds smooth and no more knock.

My research shows there is no timing curve or other forms of timing manipulation via the product doc. My neighbor says he found references to the module having ability to adjust curve for starting and such causing unexpected situations.

So I could have been fighting the module as well. But if the timing light was right, then I had the engine 60 degrees advanced. If you use the theory of the leading edge vs trailing edge, then the difference in timing following tried and tested methods makes sense and rotating the rotor 1 tooth and using the light to set my initial at 8 degrees advance makes for a pretty solid answer.