What do you make of this, hot push rods.

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1968FormulaS340

1968FormulaS340

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Pulled the valve covers to have a look and this is what I found. Have not measured the lash yet but the engine sounded fine and nothing felt loose. Just the noise of a solid roller valve train.

These are for:
#1: E
#3: I
#2: E & I

What to check and what to look for? Opinions?
 

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Easy. For whatever reason, they are not getting oiled. I don't know about those rockers, maybe wrong shaft or wrong shaft (oil holes) orientation

Are both of those heads as "oil dry" as they look?

Do you have a Magnum block? Those are LA heads. Pull one or both shafts --- is there any evidence of top end oiling?

If it's not a Mag block, maybe the cam bearings are not installed correctly.
 
You sure that ain't discoloration from welding the cups on?
 

RustyRatRod
That's one of the reasons I posted. They are Smith Brothers push rods and I had a very trusted builder set up my valve train so this is the first time I have seen them.

EDIT I guess I have seen them before. When I confirmed the oiling prior to start up, my aging brain just can't remember.

67Dart273
I confirmed that all rockers were oiling before start up. (will confirm again)

Original 340 and X heads. Same shaft and rocker that has been on the car in the past.

Clean oil on a clean head so it isn't showing well but it's there.
 
Have you looked at the ball ends and valve tips for galling and heat damage? That of course would be the source, so it would show up there.
 
67Dart273 said:
Have you looked at the ball ends and valve tips for galling and heat damage? That of course would be the source, so it would show up there.
Click to expand...

I was just out there thinking about that. I will be pulling the shafts :happy7: and having a look. It needs to be done.

I will post back with my findings.
 
bad440 said:
i would say not enough oil...seen that before.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah... What oil,you running 340? Looks like lack of "cling" ,in the oil. A solid roller valve spring pressure,runs between 350 to 500+ open . That needs ,a dedicated lubricant ,not standard off the shelf motor oil.
 
I just don't buy the not oiling thing. Look how far down the discoloration is. It seems to me if the cups weren't getting oil, the discoloration would be closer to the cup. As in the cup itself would be blue.

Bust it off without the valve covers and see how much oil it's getting.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I just don't buy the not oiling thing. Look how far down the discoloration is. It seems to me if the cups weren't getting oil, the discoloration would be closer to the cup. As in the cup itself would be blue.

Bust it off without the valve covers and see how much oil it's getting.
Click to expand...

This,nip it in the bud... 340... At least,you caught it.
 
Absolutely positive, that lash is right on that solid roller?...
 
those would have to be red hot to cause the discoloration.
looks like the work of a torch, borderline meltdown
 
Find any brand of oil with at least 1200PPM of Zinc in it.
I run Valvoline VR10W30.
No problems oiling, I even have Smith Bros. push rods.

I don't like having to add any additives.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
Original 340 and X heads. Same shaft and rocker that has been on the car in the past.
Click to expand...

Is this a fresh built engine?

What has changed?

block decked?
heads milled?
valve job?
installed spring height the same

Are those harland sharp rockers?

looks to me that the push rods are a HAIR to long, the oiling hole in the rocker is missing the spray pattern to the adjuster/push rod cup

oil should spray on to the adjuster, drop down into the push rod cup



Look under the rocker, see if 1 1/2 to 2 threads are showing

this engine is
200/600 spring pressure,
.650 lift
smith brothers push rods
Rotella T 15-40


003.jpg
 
I have no idea, at this point, whether it's a oiling issue or not. But, i'm a little curious as to the different levels of the adjusting screws I circled in these pics.......Maybe it's just a variance in rocker construction? It just looks a little off to me. Maybe others have seen it before?
 

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draginmopars said:
Is this a fresh built engine?

What has changed?

block decked?
heads milled?
valve job?
installed spring height the same

Are those harland sharp rockers?

looks to me that the push rods are a HAIR to long, the oiling hole in the rocker is missing the spray pattern to the adjuster/push rod cup

oil should spray on to the adjuster, drop down into the push rod cup



Look under the rocker, see if 1 1/2 to 2 threads are showing

this engine is
200/600 spring pressure,
.650 lift
smith brothers push rods
Rotella T 15-40


003.jpg
Click to expand...

Fresh rebuild, really just a tear down, new rings, bearings, oil pump, chain and so on.
Yes they are harland sharp rockers.

The only significant change was the cam. Cam had a different base circle requiring a pushrod change.
 
OldmanRick said:
I have no idea, at this point, whether it's a oiling issue or not. But, i'm a little curious as to the different levels of the adjusting screws I circled in these pics.......Maybe it's just a variance in rocker construction? It just looks a little off to me. Maybe others have seen it before?
Click to expand...

See, this is where another set of eyes comes in handy. I hadn't noticed that.
 
I can tell you that I have 3 sets of Smith Bros. push rods, and NONE of them had any blueing out of the box. And in order to look like that, those push rods have to be getting really hot.

Before you tear anything apart, pull the valve covers and run the engine to see what the oiling looks like. Those heads look pretty dry. Then check the lash adjustment before you tear into it.

After that I'd pull the rockers and shafts to see what they look like. Check the rockers, push rods, and shafts for signs of wear and galling, and check to see if the push rods are straight. If the push rods are getting that hot, the shafts probably don't look good either. Take a look at the bearings in the rockers, and the bodies of the rockers themselves. Although it was the fault of my valve springs and not the rockers, I tore up a set of Harlands in my 340 and you could actually see where the roller pins were wearing out the rocker bodies. If it really is an oiling problem and the tips are that dry, I'd suspect damage elsewhere.

The adjustment on the rockers can be a little different just depending on the valve seat heights. They may not have been set dead on to begin with, or if there's some miles on the heads and they weren't redone it could just be a little variation in how the seats are wearing. As long as the adjuster is still in spec I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

I'm not a fan of additives either. I used Comp Cams break in oil for my engine break in, and I use Brad Penn now that break-in is done. It has everything in the oil itself, no additive needed.
 
that's some serious heat its not an oil brand problem its deff, friction going on in there brad penn some slick oil, but as some 1 said that had to be red hot to leave the blueing in there . jmo but I would look at some mechanical friction issue
 
Did you buy the hardened shafts that Harlan sharp recommends?

They have oil holes top and bottom unlike the stock shafts , so you can't put them on wrong and get lots of oil to the roller bearings
 
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