what goes in must come out???

[sthorvictor75du]

ok so here's my dilemma... ive rebuilt my 727 twice now (behind the 383 4bbl), and the second go around ive only pu on probably 3000 miles tops on her and she needs to be pulled again ( symptoms: vibrating in all gears, whining at higher rpm with a rattle, top half of second is shot and third is going, oil is black and smells burnt, and it feels gutless out of the hole she normally shreds the tires off but wont even chirp them, and if you try a break torque it just sits there and revs at the stock 1600-1800 Rpm and sits there where it normally overpowers the breaks)

the first time i built it it was just a stock build and these symtoms started to appear and shure enough one day i had to limp it home literally reving 3000 in first for it to shift into third skipping second and got a top speed of 15 mph.... but today thats not the issue yet.

this last go around was also a stock rebuild with a stage two shift kit and is still under warranty, however i would like to know why it would go soo soon?? i drive it a bit hard now and then but im shure you have to do some really stupid stuff to make it go that soon??

also im planning on throwing a stall convertor in the car but would like to keep the 3.23 gears and dont want to go too extreme with it, also wondering if its better to have a stall at the peak hp or peak tq??

as far as tranie coolers? do you need to run the lines throgh the rad or can you bypass it?? and would larger i.d. tubes (to and from rad/tranie) be better for flow and cooling??

thanks for any info guys its a bit of info to digest, but the trannie comes out monday or tuesday when i get time and any info will help, and will get me on my way to ordering the right stuff

 

[res1vw21]

does your kickdown work and what kind of fluid are you using?

 

[sthorvictor75du]

as far as fluid i cant even remember what i used i threw her together last fall,
what is the correct fluid for next time? i used what was recomended at napa last time...

as far as the kickdown im using a cable and have it set so that at wot the trans shifts at 5000, and will shift around 2000-2500 from fist to second under normal driving?
with the cable any tighter the thing will shift at 6000(as high as i took it) i wasnt willing to see how high it would go, but it shifted as soon as i let off the throttle a hair,

as far as the kickdown lever at wot there is a 1/4'' gap till its fully depressed to the back of the tranie
hope that helps

 

[sthorvictor75du]

sorry but i believe it was an atf fluid?

 

[fishy68]

What all did you do (replace, check, etc) in the rebuilds? I completely disassemble the trans down to every last bolt and have the case hot tanked, scrub every last piece of crud off of every part, replace all friction discs and steel plates WITH GOOD QUALITY PARTS, check and set every clearance as needed including shimming up the excessive play that every stock torqueflite trans has in the gear train. Then assemble it using all new thrust washers and check the final end play and set it as necessary. Replace the bands (again with quality parts) and adjust them correctly. Replace all rubber seals and steel sealing rings. Then air pressure test each component to make sure it works correctly. Then completely disassemble the valve body and thoroughly clean it and inspect it and replace any worn part(s). Probably a couple other steps I missed too. That is only way I do them anymore. It assures a long lasting transmission that you will be happy with.

What shift improver kit are you using? Some kits actually cause overlap which will burn up a transmission real fast. Sometimes you don't even realize it's overlapping cause it's just a small amount but it'll trash a trans. fast. I now run only Trans-go shift kits because I have never had any problems with them.

I suggest running the cooler lines through the radiator unless you run a really big cooler. Larger lines won't help any cause it just gets restricted at the fittings. You definitely don't want a stall converter that stalls at your peak horsepower. In fact racers don't even run stalls as high as the peak hp. With tall gears like you are running I wouldn't go over a 2,500-2,600 rpm or it may slip at speeds any lower than hwy speeds and slipping creates heat which is a transmissions enemy. Make sure and get a good converter from a good reputable company built to your cars specifications. That'll give you the best drivability and performance. They cost more but they are worth every penny of it.

BTW: do you have a good manual for reference? If not the best one out there is written by Carl Munroe and it's cheap. It has a ton of great information in it including step by step rebuild instructions and high performance modifications. Here's a link to it on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1557883998/?tag=fabo03-20

 

[sthorvictor75du]

hi thanks,
as far as the rebuild i sent it into my friend who has guys that build his tranies for his drag cars but i can ask him what they do to them and what kits are used, i was planning on spending 500-600 on a converter i dont known if thats reasonable or not, as far as the shifts at first they were extremely hard as in i was swapping out u joints very fast, second gear she chirped hard and third was like some one droped a hammer on a gear or something soo to say (even under light acceleration), and then it started to mellow out and hold the gears longer=higher rpm before shifting...

a thought occurred in the last few minutes is it possible the transmission may have been over heating??? i dont have an external cooler hooked up with the rad, and there isnt a whole lot of room between the tunnel and trans in the car for airflow, and the motor runs hot durring the summer its hard to keep her below 195 deg F any time its above 25 deg C

 

[fishy68]

If your converter was stock or just a low stall I doubt overheating caused it to go so fast. It sounds like the problem is in the shift kit. Shifts should never be "hard". Especially as hard as you described. I've had a run in with a couple of shift kits that produce what alot of people think is a good shift because it jerks you hard and barks the tires but in reality the shift kit was just causing a bunch of overlap. Overlap is when the next gear comes on too fast, while the previous gear is still engaged. So in essence it's in 2 gears at the same time for a moment. Unless your a trans expert you usually think it's just a radical shift kit and it's good but in reality it's very hard on the transmission and usually burns it up pretty fast like yours is doing. You want a nice firm shift but not something that causes you to have to replace the U-joints every month.

I'd say get it rebuilt and toss the valve body in it and install one with a Trans-go TF-2 kit and you should be good to go.

$500-600 should get you a real good converter. If you put a high stall in it you do need a good external cooler. Put in the biggest you can fit/afford. Heat is a transmissions enemy.

Good luck.

 

[sthorvictor75du]

ok so i finaly got the thing out, in the pan there was a nice and neat lovely pile of metal shavings, not the stuff that makes the oil look metalic but a very solid pile in the middle of heavier chunks, the tail shaft has a fair amount of play along with the inner imput shaft from the torque converter, the converter its self you can shake it and hear metalic clicking and the internals seem to have some side to side play i dont know if that is normal too??? thanks

 

[fishy68]

That don't sound good. Except the torque converter part. When not engaged in the transmission the gears will clunk around. But after you found all that crap in the pan I'm sure the converter is full of crap too and at a minimum needs flushed out and checked by a good converter guy. Getting a new one may be just as cheap and then you can get a higher stall unit at the same time.

 

[oldkimmer]

...............Ill bet that they build lots of chevy trannys, not very many 727s they r not building enough clearance into it.........use a 3.8 or 4.2 lever, not a 5.0........kim.........