What is the best brake fluid to use on these

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jerry6

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old 1970 cars . I s it an idea to drain the old dot 3 fluid out and replace with new silicone fluid . Would it help prevent the calipers from seizing , or should I just use dot 3 and drain and refill every 2 years ?
What do most of you use ?
 
I have used silicone (DOT 5) fluid for years in all my non-ABS cars with no problems. When I have bled it, it comes out quite clear, not w/ brown rust like glycerine fluids (DOT 3). You never have to bleed unless changing a part.

Others advise against it, but I think their reasons are ill-founded and much wrong info is out there. Because it doesn't absorb water, that could be bad if water drips into your reservoir (don't allow that!). But DOT 3 fluid sucks moisture out of the air, which is why you should flush it every few years. Silicone also has a slightly lower boiling point compared to new DOT 3. However, once DOT 3 absorbs moisture, its boiling point quickly drops, plus that causes rust. Unlike many claims, nothing bad happens if DOT 5 mixes w/ left-over DOT 3 other than that leaves spots with the rust-prone DOT 3. I blow out all lines and blow some alcohol thru before changing.

For road racing, use the highest temp fluid (DOT 4 or such), but change it before each race. For daily drivers and show cars, I think silicone is best. If so, stock up on it since getting harder to find. You can use DOT 3, but plan on regular flushing and/or honing rust out of your cylinders.
 
DOT 5 will eat all your rubber up unless you change it all out for components compatible with Silocone based fluids does it not?
 
When using dot 5 slicone fluid you have to use all new fresh components when using this fluid or rebuild the components with all new rubber parts and hoses. Have used this stuff on some cars that we have restored. Hope this clears things up. Good Luck.
 
DOT 5 will eat all your rubber up unless you change it all out for components compatible with Silocone based fluids does it not?

I never heard that, but another responder implies that also. True or another "tall tale" about silicone?

In my ~4 swaps to DOT 5 I rebuilt or replaced the wheel cylinders and usually a rebuilt master cylinder. Perhaps newer kits have compatible rubber. Silicone is pretty benign so if there is rubber attack the stories might refer to whatever rubber was used in the 60's & 70's which has probably been replaced long ago.
 
Okay thanks guys , looks like I'll stick with dot3 and change every 2 years , maybe every year . Humid as hell around here , fluid is brown after 2 years , hope it will be clear in 1 , and no seized calipers
 
I recommend not using silicone-based (DOT 5) fluid. Its lack of hygroscopicity (i.e., it does not absorb water) sounds like a good thing, but in fact it's not. Moisture will get into the brake hydraulic system with normal usage and changes in ambient temperature and humidity. That's a given. Ordinary brake fluid is designed to absorb and assimilate a fair amount of moisture without causing substantial corrosion problems. With silicone fluid, the water will accumulate in slugs at the lowest points of the system...and stay there, where it will aggressively corrode whatever it's touching. Practically speaking, if there's more than a really small slug's worth of water in your system, it's faulty and/or neglected, but the fact remains, this slugging rather than absorption of water is just a change, not an improvement. It only takes a very small amount of concentrated water sitting in one place in a steel line to initiate dangerous rust-through. And remember, it doesn't matter if the brake fluid has a sky-high boiling point; if there's even a small slug of water in the system, it's still going to boil at 212°F, and turn into steam, making your brake pedal soft and squishy or worse. Furthermore, it is very difficult to get all the air out of silicone brake fluid that is introduced with just normal handling and pouring, so it is very difficult to get a good, firm pedal.

There is an enormous range of conventional non-silicone brake fluids on the market. You can get whatever properties you want (e.g., high boiling point) without having to go to a silicone-based fluid.

And as if that weren't enough, the cost and effort difference between regular and silicone fluid is such that you can flush the system with conventional fluid every few years for a long time before you equal the cost of just one silicone fluid changeover.

Shop carefully. All silicone fluid is "DOT 5". The highest spec category for non-silicone fluids is "DOT 5.1".

DOT 3 (original fill after '69, replaced the old J1703 fluid spec), DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 fluids are all intermixable.

DOT 5 (silicone fluid) cannot be mixed with DOT 3, 4, or 5.1.

We can get much higher performance brake fluid now than was available when our cars were new. I haven't looked around for brake fluid performance comparison tests — I imagine somebody's done them — but not long ago when I was shopping for half a litre of brake juice, I was faced with at least four choices of Prestone DOT 3 fluid. I don't recall all the varietal names, but there was one that said "for Ford vehicles", one that said "for ABS brake systems", one that was just plain, and...at least one other. All DOT 3, 4, and 5.1 fluids are intermixable, so there's no danger of a situation like "ohmygawd, I put Ford fluid in my Dodge/I put non-Ford fluid in my Ford".

Each of these multiple types of Prestone DOT 3 fluid had different boiling points, though there were two boiling points listed on each bottle; one denoting the minimum required for the DOT 3 category, and the other indicating the characteristic of that particular fluid…read carefully; the labelling isn't very clear. It's even more confusing than that; some fluids list both a dry and a wet boiling point, and some DOT 3 fluids have a higher (better) boiling point than some DOT 4 fluids.

Really, it should not be necessary to spend money on exotic brake fluids. Use a good brand of DOT 3 or DOT 4. Shop carefully, use a reputable brand, and be choosy. I have tended to use Castrol LMA DOT 4 when I can find it. Flush the system every few years and you'll be in fine shape for a long time to come.
 
been running dot5 in my car for a few years now with no issues know friends that have been running it for 10 years with no issues.
 
I use Dot 4 in my stuff.
 
I've never seen DOT 5 deteriorate rubber parts in a system designed for DOT 3, 4 and 5.1. But I'm just going off what I learned in the textbooks in automotive. Dan hit everything on the head, he knows his facts. To harpe on something he said, DOT 3 and 4 break fluid are compatible with each other, but they are not compatible with DOT 5.
 
Dan, your reply could be straight out of the brake system section of my collision repair textbook.

'zat a good or a bad thing?
redbeard.gif
 
For a fairly authoritative discussion see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid

Re silicone DOT 5 fluid, they do mention Dan's concerns if water gets in the system, but they also say it doesn't absorb water from the atmosphere and thru the hoses like glycol fluids do. The main concern with water intrusion is if you replace glycol fluid and leave drops of old glycol fluid since that could be bad rusty stuff with water already absorbed in it. If you are replacing/rebuilding all wheel cylinders anyway and blow air thru the lines that should get any old fluid out. Another idea is to first flush thru new glycol fluid then blow it out, so any drops left are at least new fluid.

Perhaps the best argument for silicone fluid is the statement:
"The United States armed forces have standardised on silicone brake fluid since the 1990s."
They don't make any decisions without careful study. Indeed, my stock is a 1 gal can I bought off ebay that was marked US Govt. If you switch to DOT 5, put a flag on your car.
 
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