what oil to use

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Well I called Castrol again and told them that I wanted the information on the levels of zinc. They told me it was a minimum of 1200ppm. They tested it and it worked fine with flat tappet cams. Now get this, they said they couldn't tell me the exact ammount because they don't give the public this information.

Fred B
 
Ace said:
see you guys are chattin' 'bout oil again.
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Well Ace it's a pretty contentious issue at least with me since I've always viewed that using the best oil in all my vehicles is cheap insurance. I've spent the last 3 days, on and off, searching the net trying to get a handle on the oil being offered out there "today" primarily concerning the zinc (ZDDP) package. I'm probably more mixed up know than when I started. I've looked at Amsoil, Royal Purple, Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil 1, and Shell Rotella T. At present there is only 1 manufactorer that clearly states that their oil has 1200ppm (the minimum according to Hughes engine and others) and that's Valvoline VR1 at 1200-1300ppm. I should mention that I was unable to get a "clear" indication from my search on either Amsoil or Royal Purple, I guess it's top secret with these clowns. Shell Rotella T, the old standby at least in Canada, has dropped there contents down to 1100ppm and it will be lower next year.

Terry
 
they have to provide an MSDS sheet with their oils. this sheet lists all of the ingrediants in their product. them telling ,they can't tell you is pure BS!!!
it's required , period!!! STP has red bottle out, they state it has more ZDDP in it, regardless, todays motor oil will require an additive. GM has pulled their EOS, they have a new product,#12345501 ,cam& lifter prelube.
 
perfacar said:
they have to provide an MSDS sheet with their oils. this sheet lists all of the ingrediants in their product. them telling ,they can't tell you is pure BS!!!
it's required , period!!! STP has red bottle out, they state it has more ZDDP in it, regardless, todays motor oil will require an additive. GM has pulled their EOS, they have a new product,#12345501 ,cam& lifter prelube.
Click to expand...

MSD doesnt have to tell percetages etc, only whats in it.
 
To be honest, I’m getting a little cynical about the whole (whale) oil industry.

Here is a neutral ongoing study
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Amsoil told 2shelbys that “The majority of AMSOIL synthetic lubricants are formulated with polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base stocks.”

But according to all sources that I can find, it is a diester (non-PAO).

Ed Newman ,Marketing & Advertising Manager, AMSOIL INC. http://www.awdist.com/americascarshow/

“AMZOIL (Amatuzio-oil) was created and became the first 100% synthetic diester based engine oil to pass the API sequence tests and receive API qualification in 1972.

The following year Mobil Oil began marketing the first PAO based engine oil overseas and in 1975 they began test marketing a synthetic PAO based synthetic in the U.S. called Mobil 1.”

And in addition to not being able to get information from the manufactures and not knowing what the hell they are talking about anyway, the manufactures probably change oil components on a daily basis.

I think we are screwed.

It’s all mouse’s milk.
 
I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist over it. It's just how they gain competitive advantage in the marketplace. Misleading statements, grandiose claims, vauge references.

Buy Scamsoil - it's all good.
 
perfacar said:
they have to provide an MSDS sheet with their oils. this sheet lists all of the ingrediants in their product. them telling ,they can't tell you is pure BS!!!
it's required , period!!! STP has red bottle out, they state it has more ZDDP in it, regardless, todays motor oil will require an additive. GM has pulled their EOS, they have a new product,#12345501 ,cam& lifter prelube.
Click to expand...

You're partically right perfacar, the MSDS does list a lot of the oil contents that could be hazardous (especially to rats) but not necessarily the actual percentage by weight or ppm. I was able to find an actual product info sheet on the Valvoline VR1 racing website that list the zinc and phospherous by weight. http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR-1 Racing Motor Oil.pdf

So far this is the only oil that I've able to get a diffinative contents sheet on

Terry
 
Just today I was talking with a buddy of mine and he said Comp Cams has a Zinc additive that allows you to use whatever oil you want. I've also been told that the Pennzoil Racing Oil is good stuff too.

One of these days I'll be pouring 5 qts. of SOMETHING into my crankcase before I cross my fingers and hit the ignition.... :-k
 
adriver said:
To be honest, I’m getting a little cynical about the whole (whale) oil industry.

Here is a neutral ongoing study
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Amsoil told 2shelbys that “The majority of AMSOIL synthetic lubricants are formulated with polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base stocks.”

But according to all sources that I can find, it is a diester (non-PAO).

Ed Newman ,Marketing & Advertising Manager, AMSOIL INC. http://www.awdist.com/americascarshow/

“AMZOIL (Amatuzio-oil) was created and became the first 100% synthetic diester based engine oil to pass the API sequence tests and receive API qualification in 1972.

The following year Mobil Oil began marketing the first PAO based engine oil overseas and in 1975 they began test marketing a synthetic PAO based synthetic in the U.S. called Mobil 1.”

And in addition to not being able to get information from the manufactures and not knowing what the hell they are talking about anyway, the manufactures probably change oil components on a daily basis.

I think we are screwed.

It’s all mouse’s milk.
Click to expand...
As that says, their very first synthetic was non-PAO. Everything they make now is PAO.
 
demon seed said:
I should mention that I was unable to get a "clear" indication from my search on either Amsoil or Royal Purple, I guess it's top secret with these clowns.
Terry
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Terry. You can't just cruise the net. Contact them directly and ask. This is the response I got from Amsoil:

OBJECTIVE:
Provide facts outlining lubrication requirements of flat tap-pet and camshaft style engines and the effect of motor oil additives containing higher levels of zinc/phosphorus.
ISSUES:
Engine oils contain anti-wear additives and the most common anti-wear chemistry is zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZnDDP), which contains a combination of zinc and phosphorus. In 2005, in an effort to guarantee catalytic converter performance in new vehicles, the American Petroleum Institute (API) and International Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC) instituted API SM and IL-SAC GF-4 quality standards which reduced the maximum limit for phosphorus to 0.085% and 0.080% respectively. Both API SM and ILSAC GF-4 specifications also contain a minimum phosphorus content of .065% and .060%.
Previously, API SL/ILSAC GF-3 oils were restricted to 0.10% phosphorus level, so a concern arose that oils containing lower levels of zinc/phosphorus could provide insufficient protection in high pressure areas of flat tappets and camshaft lobes found in many older cars and high-performance engines.
TECHNICAL DISCUSSION:
Proper assembly lubes and oil additives should be used during the break-in phase for all new or rebuilt engines with flat tappets. These additives provide the extra protection required at the point of contact during break-in to help the flat tappet face to properly mate with the cam lobe. Once the break-in phase is completed, these additives should not be used because of other engine life issues created by long term use of these materials. AMSOIL does not provide break-in assembly lubricants, but one of the common products is GM E.O.S., which is an assembly lubricant and is not, as stated by GM, an engine oil additive. AMSOIL does not recommend using any engine oil additives with AM-SOIL engine lubricants.
High-performance modified engines benefit from oils with superior film strength and anti-wear properties. The flat tappet/camshaft lobe interface is the one area in an engine that has extreme contact load. This load increases significantly where non-stock, high-pressure valve springs are employed so the use of properly formulated engine lubricants is extremely important to reduce wear and extend flat tap-pet/camshaft life. In these applications, AMSOIL recommends motor oils containing high levels of zinc/phosphorus for superior protection.
RECOMMENDATION:
AMSOIL AMO, ARO, HDD, TRO, and AHR all contain high levels of zinc/phosphorus maximizing flat tappet/camshaft life in stock and modified applications.
AMSOIL 10W-40 (AMO) and 20W-50 (ARO) are premium synthetic formulations which are recommended for API SL (gasoline)/CI-4 Plus (heavy-duty, on-road diesel) specified applications. They are an outstanding choice where high zinc containing protection is required in late model hot rods requiring extra camshaft protection.
AMSOIL (HDD) is a 5W-30 weight combination diesel/gasoline oil with a higher starting TBN to handle the significant stresses from high soot loading and acid generation in modern diesel engines. HDD contains the high phosphorus and zinc required for long life.


TSB: MO-2007-08-08
Date: 8/3/2007
Page 1 of 2
Subject: Flat Tappet and Camshaft Lobe Lubrication
Technical Service Bulletin
Product Description: AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils
Submitted By: TSSTPM
Reviewed By: DP
Approval By: COO Date:
Distribution: ___Internal _X_All
AMSOIL INC., AMSOIL Bldg., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 © Copyright 2006
Submitted By: DP
AA Date: 08/08/07
AMSOIL Product Name Phosphorus Level

THE LAST TWO NUMBERS HERE ARE THE PHOSPHORUS LEVEL THEN ZINC LEVEL
AMO 10W-40 Synthetic Premium Protection 1265 1378
ARO 20W-50 Synthetic Premium Protection 1266 1379
HDD Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Oil 1266 1379
TRO 20W-50 Synthetic Racing Oil 1235 1370
AHR SAE 60 Synthetic Racing Oil 1265 1375

AMSOIL 20W-50 (TRO) is a premium synthetic racing oil with superior film strength and anti-wear protection for gasoline engines. It is an excellent choice for street or race cars, hot rods, trucks or boats. TRO is the preferred choice for highly modified, high horsepower engines requiring the extra protection required by flat tappet camshaft engines.
AMSOIL (AHR) is a super heavy weight racing oil de-signed for alcohol and nitro burning race engines where viscosity loss associated with fuel dilution is a concern. AHR includes a high dose of zinc containing anti-wear chemistry that performance engines require.

You will not find a more complete response from anyone else in the business.
 
340Dart said:
Well I called Castrol again and told them that I wanted the information on the levels of zinc. They told me it was a minimum of 1200ppm. They tested it and it worked fine with flat tappet cams. Now get this, they said they couldn't tell me the exact ammount because they don't give the public this information.

Fred B
Click to expand...
BIG RED FLAG. Do not use their products.
 
Ace said:
I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist over it. It's just how they gain competitive advantage in the marketplace. Misleading statements, grandiose claims, vauge references.

Buy Scamsoil - it's all good.
Click to expand...
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Just do a search for reviews and complaints about their products. I found scores of pages full of praise from users and not one bad review. Not one! They are also FAR more open about their products, as you can see from the response I got to my question about ZDDP. Their products are great stuff. You apparently have not contacted them or looked into their stuff and are just repeating what you have heard from other people who trash their stuff without ever using it or checking it out.
 
2shelbys said:
BIG RED FLAG. Do not use their products.
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Yea, I sent an e-mail to Royal Purple to get some answers concerning their ZDDP package, specifically ppm and I got this long winded reply that basically says "don't worry use RP and be happy". I felt like replying to the author to kiss my *** but figured the hell with it. If they can't answer a simple question about zinc then I won't use their oil.

Terry
 
demon seed said:
Yea, I sent an e-mail to Royal Purple to get some answers concerning their ZDDP package, specifically ppm and I got this long winded reply that basically says "don't worry use RP and be happy". I felt like replying to the author to kiss my *** but figured the hell with it. If they can't answer a simple question about zinc then I won't use their oil.

Terry
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Terry. You did pretty good. Most people say they never get a reply from them. I got pretty much the same one you did. Probably a form letter.
 
Valvoline is all I have ever used. Broke in the .557 cam in my 63 last year with Valvoline and no problems. I have never had a cam lobe wipe and like I said I always use Valvoline. Ron
 
FASTBACK340 said:
Just today I was talking with a buddy of mine and he said Comp Cams has a Zinc additive that allows you to use whatever oil you want. I've also been told that the Pennzoil Racing Oil is good stuff too.

One of these days I'll be pouring 5 qts. of SOMETHING into my crankcase before I cross my fingers and hit the ignition.... :-k
Click to expand...


Yeah I checked into that myself and buying it plus shipping would have cost me almost $20. I just went with Valvoline Racing oil and hoping for the best.
 
383man said:
Valvoline is all I have ever used. Broke in the .557 cam in my 63 last year with Valvoline and no problems. I have never had a cam lobe wipe and like I said I always use Valvoline. Ron
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Thanks Ron, I decided to do the same so I got my brother bringing me back a case of 10w-30 VR1 from Arizona next week and I'll change the oil for the winter. From Arizona you ask, you can't get the VR1 in 10w-30 up here in Canada only the 20w-50 at NAPA stores.
 
thanks to everyone for responding i learned alot from this thread, i know someone probably already has talked about this on here before but thanks anyways
 
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