What parts should I buy for my engine?

[Nidhögg]

Hello,
I want to start building my engine now that I took apart a while back.
It´s an 1971 340, that hasnt run since 1981.
The engine is pretty good looking inside, but I still have to replace gaskets, bearings etc, and since I have it apart Im thinking I could also tune it a little.
Also, I´m missing some parts that I didnt get with the engine (not the original engine for the car).


The engine is a 1971 340 with spreadbore intake, and this is my current shopping list which I think would work.
If someone would be friendly enough to check through the list before I order so I get the correct parts that would help me a HUGE amount


If I can get a slightly funnier engine then I want to order parts for it, but my main priority is to get the car up and running this summer and perhaps tune it next winter, so if I have to replace the intake manifold and find a more expensive carburetor for the race cam I have found, then I rather purchase a new, oem type cam.


Summit Racing:
SUM-K50062 - Summit Racing Street & Strip® Cam Kits - Would this racing cam kit work on my engine? The cam that is in the engine has some slight surface corrosion on it, so I may need to buy a new one.
SUM-210232 - Summit Racing® Remanufactured Thermoquad Carburetors - Dont have a carb, is this the best choice for now, when I dont want to replace the intake manifold?
SUM-850028 - Summit Racing Street & Strip® Ready-to-Run Billet Distributors - Dont have any distributor
SUM-G6603-B - Summit Racing Street & Strip® Timing Sets - Old timing chain has some serious slack on it
MEL-M72 - Melling Oil Pumps - Dont know the status on the old oil pump - EDIT: Change from MP to Melling
SUM-163273 - Summit Racing® OEM Harmonic Dampers - Dont know if I need a new Harmonic Dampers?
ARP-544-9701 - ARP Engine Bolt Kits - New bolt kit
GMB-120-1070 - GMB OE Replacement Water Pumps - EDIT: Changed from high flow to normal, OEM type
FEL-KS2114 - Fel-Pro Gasket Kit Sets - Gasket kit
FEL-1008 - Fel-Pro Performance Head Gaskets - New head gaskets, because this kit states the thickness which is the same as the one I have
MIL-34040 - Milodon Freeze Plug Kits
MSD-8200 - MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coil - Dont have an ignition coil
PWM-8-47529 - Powermaster Street Alternators - Going to run subwoofer and electric fan so need a new alternator
1971 DODGE DART Summit Racing® Protorque Starters SUM-820337 - Have two old, huge starters, not sure what condition they are in

Mancini Racing:
Piston rings - File fit - Standard tension
Clevite 77 High-Performance Camshaft Bearings
Clevite 77 P-Series Rod Bearings, 273 - 360
Clevite 77 P-Series Main Bearings, 340


EDIT 1: Removed chain tensioner, replaced MP Oil pump with Melling, replaced High Flow water pump with OEM water pump

 

[Bad Sport]

It looks like you've thought this out well, I'll toss this out there on the carb.

If you don't want to go Thermoquad, and would rather get something else, you can use this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1420/overview/

That way you can keep the OE intake, which aren't bad, and run a regular squarebore carb of your liking.

 

[straightlinespeed]

Im not going to comment on the engine side of things, but with that alternator putting out 140 amps, you may want to consider upgrading the wiring harness. These old harnesses are really only designed for the small output alternators that are originally on the car. Just something to think about.

 

[Nidhögg]

It looks like you've thought this out well, I'll toss this out there on the carb.

If you don't want to go Thermoquad, and would rather get something else, you can use this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1420/overview/

That way you can keep the OE intake, which aren't bad, and run a regular squarebore carb of your liking.

Well, I dont have any carb of my liking since I havent owned a car with a carb before
So, anything that fits the car, have a nice feeling to it when driving and isnt too hard to learn (because I want to learn to adjust my own carb) is an option.

Im not going to comment on the engine side of things, but with that alternator putting out 140 amps, you may want to consider upgrading the wiring harness. These old harnesses are really only designed for the small output alternators that are originally on the car. Just something to think about.

Yes, we will do new wiring on the car. A friend is an electrician, and we will bypass the amp-meter. A good thing about that alternator is that its internally regulated, so if I remember him correctly we should be able to run a wire straight to the battery (with some modifications to the starter relay etc). Dont´really know exactly, but yeah, we are aware of the problem with the output

 

[straightlinespeed]

Yes, we will do new wiring on the car. A friend is an electrician, and we will bypass the amp-meter. A good thing about that alternator is that its internally regulated, so if I remember him correctly we should be able to run a wire straight to the battery (with some modifications to the starter relay etc). Dont´really know exactly, but yeah, we are aware of the problem with the output

Way to be thinking way ahead of the game! Sounds like you do have yourself a nice build planned.

The only other thing, is there a reason your going with the high flow water pump? I believe a lot of us on here are using a stock pump and dont have any over heating issues. Could save yourself some more money if you just run a standard pump.

 

[Locomotion]

You can get the bearings from Summit as well. But the size will need to be determined by whoever checks the crank and decides if it needs to be cut to a particular undersize or can be kept standard with just a polish. It will save you money to buy as much as possible from one source.

No question on replacing the cam.

Get the best timing chain you can for long life. You may not need a tensioner if it's tight and the engine doesn't get line bored. Cloyes does have undersize chains. But like the bearings, that's difficult to predict until parts are ready for assembly.

Thermoquads are good carbs. But you have to know how to work on them. Find some book or online info.

For street use, you don't need a Mopar high performance version if it's a high volume or high pressure. A good standard oil pump will be more than adequate, like a Melling M72 (no HV). That's all I have on my race car.

Make sure the coil and distributor is compatible with whatever ignition system you will be using. An electronic set up would be best if you have points now. I've had great luck with Mallory HyFire VI stuff on my race car as well.


Most important of all, find a machine shop with a good reputation for quality work and honesty.

 

[krazykuda]

You may save a little money here:


Mancini racing has "refresh kits" with main & rod bearings, gasket kit, and rings for $200 for cast rings in the "A" kit; and $205 with moly rings included in the "B" kit.

http://www.manciniracing.com/enrebkit.html

The "C" & "D" kits may be a little more than you need.


Also, I would use the Mancini freeze plug kit, as it looks like it has an extra oil galley plug that the miloden kit doesn't and much cheaper ($15 compared to $37), I would go with the brass kit:

http://www.manciniracing.com/freezeplugs.html

 

[1qwikScamp]

I would get an edelbrock 1405 carb should run great. You don't need a timing chain tensioner, a new timing set will be sufficient. Also I would rather have a melling oil pump instead of the mp performance. And the summit dampeners kinda suck save some money and headache just get a professional products brand

 

[krazykuda]

I would get an edelbrock 1405 carb should run great. You don't need a timing chain tensioner, a new timing set will be sufficient. Also I would rather have a melling oil pump instead of the mp performance. And the summit dampeners kinda suck save some money and headache just get a professional products brand

Wouldn't he be better off using a spread bore carb if he's going with the stock intake.


If not the Holley 80457 is a nice carb if he prefers Holley over Edelbrock/Carter. 600 vacuum secondaries with electric choke and is cheaper than the comparable 1850 with a manual choke and it has a better calibration than the 1850.


80457:

http://www.manciniracing.com/homo41noflca.html


1850:

http://www.manciniracing.com/600cfmfobast1.html

 

[1qwikScamp]

If he ever plans on putting a square bore intake on it later down the road he will have to buy another carburetor. I would just go ahead and buy a square bore now. Will probably save money in the long run

 

[gliderider06]

Another alternative you may want to consider. Advanceautoparts.com You can get most of the parts you listed there for A LOT cheaper. A mini starter from a 99 Ram was $40.00 ish dollars. Oil pump, t-chain, tensioner etc. Open a second browser and type in Advance auto discount code, and you can get 30% off your order and they ship to your door free. Something to check out

 

[Nidhögg]

Way to be thinking way ahead of the game! Sounds like you do have yourself a nice build planned.

The only other thing, is there a reason your going with the high flow water pump? I believe a lot of us on here are using a stock pump and dont have any over heating issues. Could save yourself some more money if you just run a standard pump.

Well, no particular reason except the stock one doesnt seem to be 100%, and when I searched for a replacement I found the high flow and just thought "why not?".
But if a stock/OEM replacement is fine to use I could go with GMB OE Replacement Water Pumps 120-1070, that´ll save me $57.
Should be ok quality?

You can get the bearings from Summit as well. But the size will need to be determined by whoever checks the crank and decides if it needs to be cut to a particular undersize or can be kept standard with just a polish. It will save you money to buy as much as possible from one source.

No question on replacing the cam.

Get the best timing chain you can for long life. You may not need a tensioner if it's tight and the engine doesn't get line bored. Cloyes does have undersize chains. But like the bearings, that's difficult to predict until parts are ready for assembly.

Thermoquads are good carbs. But you have to know how to work on them. Find some book or online info.

For street use, you don't need a Mopar high performance version if it's a high volume or high pressure. A good standard oil pump will be more than adequate, like a Melling M72 (no HV). That's all I have on my race car.

Make sure the coil and distributor is compatible with whatever ignition system you will be using. An electronic set up would be best if you have points now. I've had great luck with Mallory HyFire VI stuff on my race car as well.


Most important of all, find a machine shop with a good reputation for quality work and honesty.

I tried to search for bearings on Summits site, but could´nt find any.
But I found them in the catalogue. The only problem is I have no idea what are good quality brands and not. Clevite P-series should be ok?

Same with the timing chain, I just picked the Summit Racing one because it a big rang of advance/retard options, but I have no clue what to pick when it comes to quality.
So, Cloyes, Summit, Melling, Edelbrock, Sealed Power, or any other brand?

Added Melling M72, $16 less to spend.

Not to sure about the coil honestly, but I dont want to spend too much money (and also want to get it up and running this summer) so I want to try to keep it as much stock as possible, and just upgrade whats needed for the high output alternator so I wont burn any cables.

You may save a little money here:


Mancini racing has "refresh kits" with main & rod bearings, gasket kit, and rings for $200 for cast rings in the "A" kit; and $205 with moly rings included in the "B" kit.

http://www.manciniracing.com/enrebkit.html

The "C" & "D" kits may be a little more than you need.


Also, I would use the Mancini freeze plug kit, as it looks like it has an extra oil galley plug that the miloden kit doesn't and much cheaper ($15 compared to $37), I would go with the brass kit:

http://www.manciniracing.com/freezeplugs.html

Both the refresh kits and the freeze plug kits sound great, thanks for the tip!

I would get an edelbrock 1405 carb should run great. You don't need a timing chain tensioner, a new timing set will be sufficient. Also I would rather have a melling oil pump instead of the mp performance. And the summit dampeners kinda suck save some money and headache just get a professional products brand

Second one to question timing chain tensioner, its gone. Also, second one to recommend Melling oil pump, so that one is in.
What brand of dampener should I get instead?

Wouldn't he be better off using a spread bore carb if he's going with the stock intake.


If not the Holley 80457 is a nice carb if he prefers Holley over Edelbrock/Carter. 600 vacuum secondaries with electric choke and is cheaper than the comparable 1850 with a manual choke and it has a better calibration than the 1850.


80457:

http://www.manciniracing.com/homo41noflca.html


1850:

http://www.manciniracing.com/600cfmfobast1.html

The problem is I have NO idea what advantages different brand carbs have over another.
Never worked with carbs before, and since I live in Sweden I have never encountered carbs from US cars (except driven a few of them, but never worked on them), the only carbs Ive seen people work on is for some older Volvo models.
Im at a loss here, so basically Im just reading what people recommends, count which one gets the most votes and go with that one

If he ever plans on putting a square bore intake on it later down the road he will have to buy another carburetor. I would just go ahead and buy a square bore now. Will probably save money in the long run

Good input, perhaps in the future there will be another intake.
Square bores are better/more common than spreadbore?

Another alternative you may want to consider. Advanceautoparts.com You can get most of the parts you listed there for A LOT cheaper. A mini starter from a 99 Ram was $40.00 ish dollars. Oil pump, t-chain, tensioner etc. Open a second browser and type in Advance auto discount code, and you can get 30% off your order and they ship to your door free. Something to check out

Thanks for the tip, will check it out! Just have to see that they ship to sweden
EDIT: Apparently they do not :/

 

[straightlinespeed]

Yep, I think that water pump will work out good for you! Keep us posted of your build and we all like to see pics. So if you have any pics of what your working on throw them up on here.

 

[krazykuda]

The problem is I have NO idea what advantages different brand carbs have over another.
Never worked with carbs before, and since I live in Sweden I have never encountered carbs from US cars (except driven a few of them, but never worked on them), the only carbs Ive seen people work on is for some older Volvo models.

Im at a loss here, so basically Im just reading what people recommends, count which one gets the most votes and go with that one

:/

Quick carb advice:

Carter/Edelbrock are great out of the box.

Holley carbs are good out of the box, but are very tuneable if you learn how they work, however they can be a little finnicky.

I used to prefer Edelbrock/Carter, but once I learned how to work on Holleys, I like them better now.


Holleys need more time to fine tune. If you are not experienced with carbs, I would go with an Edelbrock with electric choke for street driven cars. You can still tune an Edelbrock, but not to the degree that you can fine tune a Holley. Edelbrock are easier to bolt on quick adjust and go for someone not experienced in carbs.

 

[1qwikScamp]

For the balencer I have a professional products on my 408 and the old 360 I built for my truck I just used a cheaper pioneer brand both are nice pieces sourced them both from summit racing , and yes square bore intakes and carburetors are much more common in the performance world than a spread bore

 

[71Scamper]

Another option for the carb would be a Street Demon. It bolts to either spread bore or square bore. This way you can upgrade the intake at a later time without worrying about adapter plates. They also have electric choke and adjustability.

 

[Nidhögg]

Yep, I think that water pump will work out good for you! Keep us posted of your build and we all like to see pics. So if you have any pics of what your working on throw them up on here.

Sure, pics on the bottom of the post

Quick carb advice:

Carter/Edelbrock are great out of the box.

Holley carbs are good out of the box, but are very tuneable if you learn how they work, however they can be a little finnicky.

I used to prefer Edelbrock/Carter, but once I learned how to work on Holleys, I like them better now.


Holleys need more time to fine tune. If you are not experienced with carbs, I would go with an Edelbrock with electric choke for street driven cars. You can still tune an Edelbrock, but not to the degree that you can fine tune a Holley. Edelbrock are easier to bolt on quick adjust and go for someone not experienced in carbs.

Alright, Edelbrock sounds easier for me to start with
1qwikScamp recommended a 1405, but that one doesnt seem to have an electric choke, but the Edelbrock 1406 does. A good choice for a beginner for this engine with the cam Im thinking of (Summit Racing Street & Strip® Cam Kits SUM-K50062)?

For the balencer I have a professional products on my 408 and the old 360 I built for my truck I just used a cheaper pioneer brand both are nice pieces sourced them both from summit racing , and yes square bore intakes and carburetors are much more common in the performance world than a spread bore

Sorry, I misunderstood you the first time, I thought you were talking about any good quality ("professional") brand, not a specific (Professional Products) brand
So I found the Professional Products PowerForce Harmonic Dampers 80012, should be ok?

Another option for the carb would be a Street Demon. It bolts to either spread bore or square bore. This way you can upgrade the intake at a later time without worrying about adapter plates. They also have electric choke and adjustability.

Well, as I said, I have very little experience with carbs.. What are the advantages of the Street Demon vs Edelbrock or Holley?


Pictures:


This is the car the engine is going into, a 1968 Dodge Dart GT




Engine and tranny




Interior shot, it needs a little love and cleaning, but the car has been standstill in a garage since 1991 until I took it with me when I bought a house and garage last year, so a bit of dust is to be expected. My dad bought the car in 1987, and he parked it in 1991, and sometime later bought a Valiant.
The engine in the Valiant seized and he took the original engine from the Dart (a 273) and placed it in the Valiant.
And since he didnt got any work done on the Dart I got it instead

The original engine is still in the Valiant, but its been sitting outside on grass since late 90´s, sometime in the future I´m gonna remove it and perhaps fix it, but since I´m not gonna keep the car original (going for the old muscle car stance it had when my dad owned it, the old hi-jackers is still fitted on it, although Im probably gonna go with +2" leaf springs instead) I rather have a 1971 340 than a 1968 273. Also, the 340 is a lot less work to get up and running since its been sitting inside a garage since 1981 (a friend of my dads had it before I got it).

 

[1qwikScamp]

Yep thats the one I have I love it I've not had any trouble at all out of it

 

[straightlinespeed]

Thanks for the pics! The car looks really clean and solid! Not to mention you have a great base to start from and at least you know the history of it. Make sure you have fun with building it!

Onto the carb, I've had Eddy carbs in the past, all of them the 1406. They are a good carb and I've never had any issues with them. I cant speak for the street demon carb, I dont know anyone that runs them. Honestly I have never seen one on a car. They do seem to have good reviews on Summit Racing though.

I wish I could speak about the cam you picked, sadly I dont understand cams enough to say yay or nay. Someone will chime in about it though.

 

[Coronet 500]

http://www.demoncarbs.com/1900.asp

We have had a Street Demon for 1 1/2 yrs and like it very much.

The triple primary booster has very snappy response, the secondaries are easily adjusted and will fit square or spread bores. Great for a street vehicle.

I would stick with a Holley style for a higher performance engine because with experience and fine tuning the design can't be beat.

 

[krazykuda]

Sure, pics on the bottom of the post



Alright, Edelbrock sounds easier for me to start with
1qwikScamp recommended a 1405, but that one doesnt seem to have an electric choke, but the Edelbrock 1406 does. A good choice for a beginner for this engine with the cam Im thinking of (Summit Racing Street & Strip® Cam Kits SUM-K50062)?

I would recommend using the one with the electric choke for a street car.


Just hook the positive wire for the choke up to the input side of the ballast (DO NOT USE THE COIL AS A POWER SOURCE).

Then once the choke is adjusted properly, just start it up and go.... Even in freezing weather below 20°F....

 

[71Scamper]

Coronet stole my thunder lol. The street demon carb is a completely new design. Very simple in design compared to anything else on the market. The street demon is a bolt on and go design like a eddy. Very similar to the eddy as carb as far as adjustments go, but more responsive with the newer design.

 

[1qwikScamp]

I prefer the 1405 just because its mechanical and I think it looks neater under an air cleaner other than the choke operation its the same carb as the 1406

 

[Nidhögg]

Alright, so, I´ve looked around a bit on the Street Demon, and for me as a beginner it sounds easy enough to work on, and seem to have some interesting features (such as the Aerospace Composite fuel bowl for lower gas temp).
So, the options for carbs are now either the Edelbrock 1406, Holley 80457 or the Street Demon, all seems like valid choices. I will read up some more about them all
Just a quick question tho, the recommended OE replacement Thermoquad is rated at 800 CFM, and the Holley 80457 Krazykuda recommended is 600 CFM.
Does it matter much for my engine which one I pick?

Also, if I would go with the Street Demon, which of the 625 and 750 is the best choice?

I would recommend using the one with the electric choke for a street car.


Just hook the positive wire for the choke up to the input side of the ballast (DO NOT USE THE COIL AS A POWER SOURCE).

Then once the choke is adjusted properly, just start it up and go.... Even in freezing weather below 20°F....

Oh I´m definitely going with electric choke, just turn the key and drive, that´s my style
But I wont be driving in freezing weather, this will be a summer exclusive car, so it´s gonna be in the 60-90º F range. For all-year-round driving purposes I got my beemer (E91 330D), I live a small drive out on the country-side in Sweden and we can get loads of snow some years, and I would refuse to drive around with my 3-year old daughter without traction control

 

[krazykuda]

The thermoquad is like vacuum secondary and if over carbed, will only pull what it needs...

Can you put electric choke on one of them?


The Street Demon also sounds like a good option.


If you are running close to a stock 340 cam, then I would go with 625, but if you bump it up a little, the 750 may give you a little more power on the top end....